Ahem....about that Lab Leak Hypothesis

[jimmyz]

Remember when Trump, in his attempt to shift blame to China as his sole motivation, declared the virus came from a lab?  He had no proof and to date there still is no smoking gun.  If you science believers remember, the CCP conveniently ordered the lab to be scrubbed.  Immediately after Trump made his baseless claim, a letter was issued declaring the 'scientz' showed the virus came from nature.  People ate it up and called themselves scientifically based.  So proud are the Left of their sheepish worship of science and of administrators like Peter Daszak who actually penned that letter and was the primary individual responsible for securing the funding of the Wuhan Lab's gain of function research.  How did the scientific community, who claimed at the time that there was little known about the virus and a lot of speculation, so easily and immediately assert that the virus came from nature?  Well the scientific community didn't....the NIH and WHO did...you know...the science officials

There may not be proof that the virus came from a lab.  Unlike some who claim to know science, I know what proof means.  But the opposite claim that it most definitely did NOT come from a lab is based on no evidence, way too quickly declared and losing traction post Trump rapidly.



As New Evidence Emerges For COVID "Lab-Leak" Theory, Journalists Who Screamed

[Bob In PA]

jimmy: I still have an open mind about the whole thing.  The actions of the Chinese were (and still are) suspicious, but there's a big difference between acting guilty and proving guilt.

I think some day the truth will be known.  In the meantime, I remember a Chinese woman who got out of China about nine months ago and began speaking about the issue. 

She seems to have vanished from the face of the Earth, and I can't remember her name so I can search to try to determine what happened to her.

Bob

[FL GMAN]

Fauci being questioned yesterday on whether the U.S. helped fund the Wuhan lab. Emails surfacing regarding connection. As Rand Paul stated this virus started in a city larger than N.Y., not in the mountains near bat caves. Wouldn't it be something if the U.S. helped fund this lab which, supposedly, for years has been known to have lax safety protocols.

[MightyGiants]

These lies about a "lab leak" are as dangerous and damaging to America as the lies about the election being stolen. 

[Bob In PA]

These lies about a "lab leak" are as dangerous and damaging to America as the lies about the election being stolen.

Rich: I disagree. The danger and damage, if any, is to the media narrative and conventional wisdom. I see no danger to America. How is America being damaged, specifically?  Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: I disagree. The danger and damage, if any, is to the media narrative and conventional wisdom. I see no danger to America. How is America being damaged, specifically?  Bob

You would think that being a lie would be enough to make it something we would want to avoid.

Still, I didn't use the term dangerous lightly

There were 3,800 anti-Asian racist incidents, mostly against women, in the past year

There was a time before the truth and morals were sacrificed on the altar of political expediency when accusations required proof to be considered or taken seriously.    Now you and Jimmy and others seem to have twisted those values where any or all accusations no matter how baseless, damaging, or dangerous are considered true (as long as it matches your political views) until proven false.

This is not how things should be done. 

[Bob In PA]

You would think that being a lie would be enough to make it something we would want to avoid.

Still, I didn't use the term dangerous lightly

There were 3,800 anti-Asian racist incidents, mostly against women, in the past year

There was a time before the truth and morals were sacrificed on the altar of political expediency when accusations required proof to be considered or taken seriously.    Now you and Jimmy and others seem to have twisted those values where any or all accusations no matter how baseless, damaging, or dangerous are considered true (as long as it matches your political views) until proven false.

This is not how things should be done.

Rich: You are assuming it's a lie, without proof.  The Chinese won't let us into the lab to determine whether or not it's a lie.  The Chinese won't release the records so we can answer the question for ourselves. Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: You are assuming it's a lie, without proof.  The Chinese won't let us into the lab to determine whether or not it's a lie.  The Chinese won't release the records so we can answer the question for ourselves. Bob

Bob,

The burden of proof is on the accuser.  That is where you are twisting things, it's not on me to prove the accusation a lie.    Remember when you got angry when I posted the poll that showed the majority of Americans are happy with President Biden?  I said the anger was expected because your political side seems to lean very heavily on the argumentum ad populum fallacy which is why any suggestion that you are not in the majority unsettles you.   I bring that up because this very thread is built on the argumentum ad populum fallacy.  It's not like Jimmy had a careful fact-based case to support his accusation.   Instead, he opted for MULTIPLE SOURCES pushing the same baseless and unsupported accusations.   That's because, in your world, volume trumps facts and critical thinking.

Here's the thing, regardless of China's transparency or lack thereof, you can't claim any wild made-up theory is valid and MUST BE DISPROVEN.   That's not how the world should be working.   I mean in your world, I could claim Daniel Jones is a lizard person who hates Donald Trump and personally ate 1 million ballots and I would sit here demanding you prove to me that Daniel Jones isn't a lizard person and he didn't eat all those ballots. 

[Bob In PA]

Rich: I've got to hand it to you, you're the master of the "loaded question" (or, to be more accurate, the "loaded post").

Remember when you got angry when I posted the poll that showed the majority of Americans are happy with President Biden? 

No, I don't remember that. It didn't happen. Attempting to support a false premise with persistent repetition (and by referring to disputed items as fact) shows only that you may have a career in politics (or at CNN).

I said the anger was expected because your political side seems to lean very heavily on the argumentum ad populum fallacy which is why any suggestion that you are not in the majority unsettles you. I bring that up because this very thread is built on the argumentum ad populum fallacy.  It's not like Jimmy had a careful fact-based case to support his accusation.   Instead, he opted for MULTIPLE SOURCES pushing the same baseless and unsupported accusations.   That's because, in your world, volume trumps facts and critical thinking.

This portion of your post is superfluous inasmuch as it is based entirely on a disputed fact (a premise without a foundation).

Here's the thing, regardless of China's transparency or lack thereof, you can't claim any wild made-uptheory is valid and MUST BE DISPROVEN.   That's not how the world should be working.   I mean in your world, I could claim Daniel Jones is a lizard person who hates Donald Trump and personally ate 1 million ballots and I would sit here demanding you prove to me that Daniel Jones isn't a lizard person and he didn't eat all those ballots.

Again, the bold portion is a conclusion. All theories are "made up" and the question of whether it is "wild" is a matter of personal opinion. I think it's logical to wonder if the virus came from a lab.

They are known to be working with dangerous viruses in that lab.  We can't prove it unless they let us into the lab or at least release documentation for our examination.

The remainder of your post is correct.  The burden of proof is on the accuser.  However, I don't think it's a good idea to berate accusers.  Do you berate women who "make up" "wild" accusations about rape?

Bob

[MightyGiants]

The remainder of your post is correct.  The burden of proof is on the accuser.  However, I don't think it's a good idea to berate accusers.  Do you berate women who "make up" "wild" accusations about rape?

Bob

So people promoting their political agendas by pushing unfounded and baseless theories (which are creating hate crimes against Asians) should be treated like a woman who was sexually assaulted?   That's quite the stretch.   I have to say your comparison is disrespectful toward women over the years who were victims of sexual assault or harassment who were mistreated when they brought up their accusations.    I really think there are some lines one shouldn't cross and that comparison of yours does cross it.

To be clearly I strongly disagree with your comparison suggesting there is a similarity between people promoting baseless and damaging conspiracy theories for political gain and women who suffered double victimhood when being subjected to sexual assault or harassment. 


Edit to add:  I find it sort of amazing that the same people that supported Donald Trump hiding his tax returns from the American people, are using China's resistance toward full transparency as "proof" of whatever wild conspiracy theory one can concoct. 
 

[Bob In PA]

So people promoting their political agendas by pushing unfounded and baseless theories (which are creating hate crimes against Asians) should be treated like a woman who was sexually assaulted?   That's quite the stretch.   I have to say your comparison is disrespectful toward women over the years who were victims of sexual assault or harassment who were mistreated when they brought up their accusations.    I really think there are some lines one shouldn't cross and that comparison of yours does cross it.

To be clearly I strongly disagree with your comparison suggesting there is a similarity between people promoting baseless and damaging conspiracy theories for political gain and women who suffered double victimhood when being subjected to sexual assault or harassment. 

Rich: Yeah, that's an old tactic - try to "change the momentum" by changing the subject. Nice try. Bob

[jimmyz]

There is absolutely no good evidence that this was transmitted from a friggin' bat.  That NIH letter was an ass covering move.  The fact we're not even allowed to explore this as a possibility means we are completely blind to the origins of this virus and we cannot combat it effectively.

Science trusters my @$$. 

[Bob In PA]

There is absolutely no good evidence that this was transmitted from a friggin' bat.  That NIH letter was an ass covering move.  The fact we're not even allowed to explore this as a possibility means we are completely blind to the origins of this virus and we cannot combat it effectively.

Science trusters my @$$.

jimmy: I see two possibilities: the Chinese explanation and what we suspect. So far as I can tell, no one in our government knows. It could be the government knows more than they're willing to make public, I guess. Bob

[jimmyz]

The fact that people are claiming its dangerous to even talk about wreaks of evangelism.  The fact there is this desire to silence people is downright dystopian.

[MightyGiants]

There is absolutely no good evidence that this was transmitted from a friggin' bat.  That NIH letter was an ass covering move.  The fact we're not even allowed to explore this as a possibility means we are completely blind to the origins of this virus and we cannot combat it effectively.

Science trusters my @$$.

Well if we are going with your no-evidence is needed for theories, I have a theory that Elvis (who is still alive, thanks to the Illuminati) enlisted the help of Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster to develop and disseminate Covid.    If you are unwilling to spend time and money to disprove my theory that's proof of your efforts to cover things up.

The fact that people are claiming its dangerous to even talk about wreaks of evangelism.  The fact there is this desire to silence people is downright dystopian.

You said the exact thing when people were calling out the dangerous lies about the election being stolen.  How did that turn out again????

I didn't know you then, but I suspect you had a similar view about the false theories/hypothesis that Iraq had WMDs.

Wild conspiracy theories have very real-world consequences