The Polarization of America - and it's dangers

[MightyGiants]

JBG,

It's your right to like or support Donald Trump.  You don't even owe any of us an explanation.   Still you sort of skirted my question.  Do you think it's possible to have legitimate criticism of Donald Trump?   Are all criticism the result of "hatred"?

[Jolly Blue Giant]

JBG,

It's your right to like or support Donald Trump.  You don't even owe any of us an explanation.   Still you sort of skirted my question.  Do you think it's possible to have legitimate criticism of Donald Trump?   Are all criticism the result of "hatred"?

Sure it's okay to criticize. I often criticized him for tweeting things that I thought were beneath the office of the President. But I loved how hard he worked at getting extremely important things done - things that were said to be impossible (the Abraham Accords, becoming energy independent, bringing manufacturing back, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, getting the cost of gas down the lowest in a couple decades, etc.). Like I have said, I always choose substance over style. I could puke  watching slick politicians use style to get elected. I look for results - positive results. I don't really give a rats ass if the person puts on an air to appear other than just another human. I understand human nature and all those nice speaking, professional sounding pols talk like truckers when they are with their pals and think they'll never be heard. Sometimes it slips and you see the real person...like when DeBlasio made an inside black joke calling being late "CP time" ("colored people time"). I didn't get it, but it bothered me that Hillary knew what he was talking about. I still don't get it, but I guess it's something known to white politicians

People are always going to be people and all have faults. We are not a perfect people! Trump was an unpolished civilian politician who spent his life building great buildings and hadn't spent a second of his life in politics...and in fact, supported Democrats most of his life. He didn't spend his life sucking off the government tit while learning how to massage people with style to get elected term after term after term. He couldn't have been more down to earth and straight forward...and at times, pretty crass (just like Andrew Jackson and LBJ - although LBJ knew how to turn it off when if front of a camera). It shocked people when they saw and heard Trump get feisty when they were used to the boring polished fakeness of typical life long politicians...i.e., the art of screwing a person while making them think they aren't getting screwed and are getting something special. 

In short, criticism of politicians is fair game and it happens to every President since roughly half the population already despise you because they voted for the other guy. Again, human nature. However, the dripping vile and seething hatred I hear spewed about Trump is classless and disturbing to me. It would be the same for me to hear that stuff spewed about any President, regardless of party. I remember a woman who hated GW so much she said she wishes someone would walk up to him and shoot him in the head and blow his brains out. I told her, "you don't really mean that" and she replied, "oh yes I do - I would dance in the street and celebrate". Makes me think the human race is denigrating to a point of no return. The original article I attached to my opening post is pretty spot on (unfortunately) concerning where this country is headed.

[jimv]

I thoroughly agree with you JBG.  Trump took care of ther country & was excellent at it.  The fact he wasn't a politician combined with the fact that he came from Jamaica meant that he wouldn't take crap from anyone.  He gave as good as he got!  He wasn't suave like a lifetime politician; he just took on everything as it came & was damn good at it.

[MightyGiants]

JBG and Jim,


I am confused, are you pro or anti polarization?   Seems like the two of you admire that Trump greatly increased the polarization in our country. 

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I thoroughly agree with you JBG.  Trump took care of ther country & was excellent at it.  The fact he wasn't a politician combined with the fact that he came from Jamaica meant that he wouldn't take crap from anyone.  He gave as good as he got!  He wasn't suave like a lifetime politician; he just took on everything as it came & was damn good at it.

Yeah, history will show that he accomplished more in 4 years than almost any other politician who spent a lifetime in politics. The worst thing that will be said about him 50 years from now will be a note under his official Presidential picture, "Doesn't Play Nice". Thing is, the ones he wasn't nice to, were mainly career politicians who got where they were because they knew how the game was played and they had figured it out. They didn't like getting pushed out of their comfort zone where the traditional game was no longer being played. Trump was a bull in a china shop the way he refused to "play their game" causing hysteria among the gamers. He only cared about doing what was right for the American people and could care less about his fellow politicians and playing their game. Those career politicians despised the man for not being one of them.

[MightyGiants]

JBG,

When I hear you and JimV praise Donald Trump (or at least speak admiringly about how "he would take any crap") for increasing our nation's divides, I can't help but be pessimistic about the future of our nation.   I feel strongly that Lincoln was spot one when he said, "a house divided against itself cannot stand".    I feel it's the job of a leader/President to at least try and unify the nation and be the president of all Americans, I am quite adamant on that point.  It seems you and JimV are acknowledging that Donald Trump failed at that critical aspect of being President, while oddly admiring him for that shortcoming ("he isn't a politician", "he doesn't take any guff")

[Jolly Blue Giant]

JBG and Jim,


I am confused, are you pro or anti polarization?   Seems like the two of you admire that Trump greatly increased the polarization in our country.

Anti polarization!

Trump didn't cause the polarization, the butt-hurt politicians like Pelosi, loathsome conniving politician Adam Schiff, the complicit media, the billionaires club, tech magnates, Hollywood actors, and other inside elitists who spent 4+ years and untold billions spreading negative vibes across the country24-7 in hopes to influence the gullible and ill-informed enough to turn normal people into hate mongers. It worked and THEY are to blame, not the target of their hatred or the little guy who fell for it. Trump rocked the boat of the haves in order to help the have-nots. The haves (who basically own everything) manipulated the have-nots into their snare of deception.

Look, politics has always been a blood sport. The little guy is always the target of manipulation. It goes back, not hundreds of years, but thousands of years. Heck, if you read the Bible you see that King David wrote in the Psalms, "my enemies lay traps for me. Those who wish me harm make plans to ruin me. All day long they plan their treachery." Sounds like it could be written by Trump regarding CNN, MSNBC, Facebook, Twitter, NY Times, Washington Post, etc.

It isn't something new. The polarization we see today (which is worse than anytime in my lifetime) is due to the manipulation of the masses by those who hold all the power and hold the tools to inform or misinform the public. If the little guy takes the bait, the rich and powerful win.

[MightyGiants]

Anti polarization!

Trump didn't cause the polarization, the butt-hurt politicians like Pelosi, loathsome conniving politician Adam Schiff, the complicit media, the billionaires club, tech magnates, Hollywood actors, and other inside elitists who spent 4+ years and untold billions spreading negative vibes across the country24-7 in hopes to influence the gullible and ill-informed enough to turn normal people into hate mongers. It worked and THEY are to blame, not the target of their hatred or the little guy who fell for it. Trump rocked the boat of the haves in order to help the have-nots. The haves (who basically own everything) manipulated the have-nots into their snare of deception.

Look, politics has always been a blood sport. The little guy is always the target of manipulation. It goes back, not hundreds of years, but thousands of years. Heck, if you read the Bible you see that King David wrote in the Psalms, "my enemies lay traps for me. Those who wish me harm make plans to ruin me. All day long they plan their treachery." Sounds like it could be written by Trump regarding CNN, MSNBC, Facebook, Twitter, NY Times, Washington Post, etc.

It isn't something new. The polarization we see today (which is worse than anytime in my lifetime) is due to the manipulation of the masses by those who hold all the power and hold the tools to inform or misinform the public. If the little guy takes the bait, the rich and powerful win.

JBG,

You talk about how Trump managed to act and speak in a way that inspired not dislike but hatred.  You talk about how he "didn't play well with others".   You talk about how he didn't take guff from anyone.   You speak about how he would insult others and be frequently rude as a refreshing change from the usual politicians.

How do you figure that actions such as those did not serve to further divide our nation?

[Jolly Blue Giant]

JBG,

You talk about how Trump managed to act and speak in a way that inspired not dislike but hatred.  You talk about how he "didn't play well with others".   You talk about how he didn't take guff from anyone.   You speak about how he would insult others and be frequently rude as a refreshing change from the usual politicians.

How do you figure that actions such as those did not serve to further divide our nation?

Like I said, "he didn't divide the nation", those who hold all the power of information divided the nation. Little people like you and I have zero voice. We can banter back and forth on a message board, but it changes no ones opinions and only serves as a chance to have a voice, albeit to an audience so small it's like a drop of water in the ocean.

Trump was NOT an insider. He (according to the established politicians who played the game to get where they were at) was never supposed to be able to "crack the impossible egg" and wander into their world. He wasn't part of the inside elite who drank 12 year old W.L. Weller Bourbon at 25.00 a shot while smoking 100.00 Cubans and making backroom deals with powerful lobbyists and other politicians with a "wink, wink" I scratch your back you scratch mine. This "good ole boys club" has been around since the conception of America and it has always been how "things get done". As far as they were concerned, Trump didn't belong there. He hadn't played their hidden games and earned his stripes. And of course, the big media and their power players have been in bed with the "good ole boys club" forever so it was a natural reaction to "seek and destroy this renegade who has no right to be here in this very exclusive club". It was the rich and powerful who were shaken to the core that Trump gained office. It wasn't the insiders that got Trump elected (the way it's supposed to be), it was the little people who went out and voted. So it became their only mission for the next 4 years to spend whatever it takes, say whatever it takes, to figure out how to manipulate the little people to go back to status quo. That's what they did and they won. They successfully got a pliable old white geezer in his place who won't rock the boat of the "good ole boys club" and will do what he's told by insiders. Back to the good old days of aged bourbon and foot-long cubans, laughing in the smoke-filled back rooms with dollars signs in their eyes and beautiful young women serving their every need. And of course, the little guy loses again. Back to 3.00+ for a gallon of gas, back to purchasing oil from countries that hate us, back to transporting oil in Warren Buffet's rickety trains instead of a safe pipeline while simultaneously increasing his wealth, back to the good old days of runaway inflation, being abused by other countries, back to saber-rattling and getting involved in more wars....all while the elite get richer and the little guy gets poorer.

[MightyGiants]

Like I said, "he didn't divide the nation", those who hold all the power of information divided the nation. Little people like you and I have zero voice. We can banter back and forth on a message board, but it changes no ones opinions and only serves as a chance to have a voice, albeit to an audience so small it's like a drop of water in the ocean.

Trump was NOT an insider. He (according to the established politicians who played the game to get where they were at) was never supposed to be able to "crack the impossible egg" and wander into their world. He wasn't part of the inside elite who drank 12 year old W.L. Weller Bourbon at 25.00 a shot while smoking 100.00 Cubans and making backroom deals with powerful lobbyists and other politicians with a "wink, wink" I scratch your back you scratch mine. This "good ole boys club" has been around since the conception of America and it has always been how "things get done". As far as they were concerned, Trump didn't belong there. He hadn't played their hidden games and earned his stripes. And of course, the big media and their power players have been in bed with the "good ole boys club" forever so it was a natural reaction to "seek and destroy this renegade who has no right to be here in this very exclusive club". It was the rich and powerful who were shaken to the core that Trump gained office. It wasn't the insiders that got Trump elected (the way it's supposed to be), it was the little people who went out and voted. So it became their only mission for the next 4 years to spend whatever it takes, say whatever it takes, to figure out how to manipulate the little people to go back to status quo. That's what they did and they won. They successfully got a pliable old white geezer in his place who won't rock the boat of the "good ole boys club" and will do what he's told by insiders. Back to the good old days of aged bourbon and foot-long cubans, laughing in the smoke-filled back rooms with dollars signs in their eyes and beautiful young women serving their every need. And of course, the little guy loses again. Back to 3.00+ for a gallon of gas, back to purchasing oil from countries that hate us, back to transporting oil in Warren Buffet's rickety trains instead of a safe pipeline while simultaneously increasing his wealth, back to the good old days of runaway inflation, being abused by other countries, back to saber-rattling and getting involved in more wars....all while the elite get richer and the little guy gets poorer.

How do you explain that after 250+ years of peaceful transfers of power, under Donald Trump we witnessed a violent insurrection and repeated efforts to overthrow our government?   Wouldn't that be a good indicator of how much Donald Trump, who was President and leaders set the tone, was ripping our nation apart? 

[Jolly Blue Giant]

How do you explain that after 250+ years of peaceful transfers of power, under Donald Trump we witnessed a violent insurrection and repeated efforts to overthrow our government?

There was no attempt to overthrow the government unless you redefine "overthrow the government" to fit your anti-Trump agenda. A handful of angry citizens stormed the capital and that was very wrong...just like the leftist activists burning down Portland, Ore. Very wrong.

Wouldn't that be a good indicator of how much Donald Trump, who was President and leaders set the tone, was ripping our nation apart? 

The tone has been set by the powerful people who control the masses through media and manipulate people to their liking...which is to retain power and wealth off the backs of the common working people. Trump was a leader - one who worked hard and worked ridiculous hours to steer the country back in the direction favorable to the common folk. He was hated for it - all because he didn't favor the fat cats behind closed doors that run CNN, MSNBC, etc, and the super billionaires who control social media platforms like the Dorseys, the Zuckerbergs, etc. When the richest people in the country who hold untold massive wealth conspire to bring down a sitting President, you just know that President is doing something right. The President is not supposed to care about the little guy - he's supposed to help the already super rich.

Yes, Trump pissed off the super rich elitists and they retaliated with a concerted effort to destroy him from day one. And they succeeded. Now we have a low energy, non-leader patsy who will do EXACTLY what they want him to do. We will get rapid inflation, bigger government, weaker all around, and probably get into another war because Biden has always voted favorably for war and prides himself in it....but not to worry, the already rich will get even richer and more powerful. It's how the system works. The rich and powerful do not like renegades like Trump interfering with their efforts to control everything in their favor and fighting for the little guy. The rich and powerful do not want the little guy to have a say in their world. They win again and the commoners lose again. What a country.

[MightyGiants]

There was no attempt to overthrow the government unless you redefine "overthrow the government" to fit your anti-Trump agenda. A handful of angry citizens stormed the capital and that was very wrong...just like the leftist activists burning down Portland, Ore. Very wrong.

The tone has been set by the powerful people who control the masses through media and manipulate people to their liking...which is to retain power and wealth off the backs of the common working people. Trump was a leader - one who worked hard and worked ridiculous hours to steer the country back in the direction favorable to the common folk. He was hated for it - all because he didn't favor the fat cats behind closed doors that run CNN, MSNBC, etc, and the super billionaires who control social media platforms like the Dorseys, the Zuckerbergs, etc. When the richest people in the country who hold untold massive wealth conspire to bring down a sitting President, you just know that President is doing something right. The President is not supposed to care about the little guy - he's supposed to help the already super rich.

Yes, Trump pissed off the super rich elitists and they retaliated with a concerted effort to destroy him from day one. And they succeeded. Now we have a low energy, non-leader patsy who will do EXACTLY what they want him to do. We will get rapid inflation, bigger government, weaker all around, and probably get into another war because Biden has always voted favorably for war and prides himself in it....but not to worry, the already rich will get even richer and more powerful. It's how the system works. The rich and powerful do not like renegades like Trump interfering with their efforts to control everything in their favor and fighting for the little guy. The rich and powerful do not want the little guy to have a say in their world. They win again and the commoners lose again. What a country.

So Trump is Schr

[Jolly Blue Giant]

So Trump is Schr

[MightyGiants]

JBG,

Just to address a point.  Donald Trump tried multiple times to overthrow our government.   After he lost the election he tried to get his Republican allies at the state level to overturn the legal results.  Then he tried to get his republican allies in congress to overturn the legal results.  When all of that failed, he sent an angry treasonous right-wing mob to attack our nation's capital.   

I really fear for our nation's future.  How democratic institutions withstood Trump's and the Republican's attempts to overthrow our government this time, but what about next time?????  Trump and his GOP allies have already punished and where they could remove those patriotic Republicans that put their nation ahead of Donald Trump.    Liz Cheney was removed from power for daring to speak the truth that Trump lost the election.

So with the patriotic and honorable Republicans being removed from power, what happens next time.   There is an excellent chance those forces will simply say "we don't like the results of the election, so we are going to declare ourselves the winners".    It's a frightening and very realistic threat

[squibber]

JBG,

As for the theory you put forth about people's need for religion, what role do you think the Evengicical movement that freely mixes religion and politics might play in this nation's increasing polarization.

There clearly are Evangelical leaders that mix politics and religion. Franklin Graham is the poster child for it. Just follow his Facebook page for a few weeks. He called Democrats and liberals anti-God socialists. He spoke against liberal policies and he worked to strip equal protections for gays and transgender. He also mirrored his comments to what Trump was saying. When Trump was running for President and was talking about a Muslim ban, Franklin was fanning the flames of fear and hatred against Muslims.

There is a danger in mixing politics with religion. I read a study that found in this environment, when political beliefs are at odds with someone