Unvaccinated people are "variant factories," infectious diseases expert says

[uconnjack8]

Trying to find where I heard this, but I thought it was relevant to the conversation:

99.5% of Covid related deaths right now are in unvaccinated people.

[DaveBrown74]

Trying to find where I heard this, but I thought it was relevant to the conversation:

99.5% of Covid related deaths right now are in unvaccinated people.

That percentage is likely to decrease over time, since a huge number of the total deaths occurred when there were no vaccinations available and also before people were taking lots of precautions and before doctors/hospitals fully understood the disease.

No doubt though that if you're fully vaccinated your chances of dying from this are very low. They're not zero, but they're low enough that you should be able to feel a lot more comfortable in day to day life then prior to receiving the vaccine.

[MightyGiants]

Rich: Good article.  Relates to the Pfizer vaccine.  Bob

Bob,

There is very little difference, in my opinion, between Phizer and Moderna.  They both use the same technology.   So I will usually read any news on Pfizer or Moderna as applying to both.


As for the freedom aspect, I have to ask you guys-   Why are there helmet laws for motorcycles?

[uconnjack8]

That percentage is likely to decrease over time, since a huge number of the total deaths occurred when there were no vaccinations available and also before people were taking lots of precautions and before doctors/hospitals fully understood the disease.

No doubt though that if you're fully vaccinated your chances of dying from this are very low. They're not zero, but they're low enough that you should be able to feel a lot more comfortable in day to day life then prior to receiving the vaccine.

I believe the measurement is from when vaccinations were deployed.

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

There is very little difference, in my opinion, between Phizer and Moderna.  They both use the same technology.   So I will usually read any news on Pfizer or Moderna as applying to both.


As for the freedom aspect, I have to ask you guys-   Why are there helmet laws for motorcycles?

Rich: I'll answer your question.... because, eventually, as in the case of all constitutional rights, reasonable limitations are imposed.  Also, in case you don't know, the insurance lobby is very powerful.  LOL

[Ed Vette]

(null)
Makes sense. They don

[DaveBrown74]

I believe the measurement is from when vaccinations were deployed.

That's more interesting then. Needless to say I knew it was a high number. 99.5% is higher than I would have guessed though.

[MightyGiants]

Here is another freedom related question:

Why are many recreational drugs illegal (at least at the federal level)?   Why do we require prescriptions for medical drugs?

Also why are many of the same people who oppose the legalization of recreational drugs the strongest advocates for not wearing masks or getting vaccinated?

Why do adults need to wait until they are 21 to get alcohol?

[Ed Vette]

Predictable

[MightyGiants]

Ed,

Did you intend to post that last post on this thread?  It appears to be unrelated to the discussion we are having

[Ed Vette]

Ed,

Did you intend to post that last post on this thread?  It appears to be unrelated to the discussion we are having

You're asking questions about decisions in Civil Liberty and this is a good article in how this Supreme Court has been moving so far and speculation in moving forward.

[MightyGiants]

You're asking questions about decisions in Civil Liberty and this is a good article in how this Supreme Court has been moving so far and speculation in moving forward.

I have been speaking morally and ethically the entire time.  I have brought up laws that impinge on individual freedoms to challenge why those laws exist.  There is an argument that not getting vaccinated is purely a personal choice and an issue of freedom.   

Take the helmet laws.  Society has a stake in if a person wears or doesn't wear a helmet while driving a motorcycle.    After all, you more likely to die or be left in a vegetative state if you don't wear one and that death or disability is a cost to society.   The bigger point is that what is and isn't allowed is not viewed and has never been viewed exclusively through the lens of individual freedom.

The bigger point I was making is that we have many laws infringing on individual freedom even when those freedoms in theory to not harm others (at the very least they harm others or have the potential to harm others much less than masks or vaccination).


Bringing up the Supreme Court distracts from the discussion and adds a political element, in my opinion.

[LennG]

Why is it most states, if not all, have laws against holding a cell phone while driving?

If we want to go down any road, any law will probably infringe on someone's civil rights.

[Ed Vette]

I have been speaking morally and ethically the entire time.  I have brought up laws that impinge on individual freedoms to challenge why those laws exist.  There is an argument that not getting vaccinated is purely a personal choice and an issue of freedom.   

Take the helmet laws.  Society has a stake in if a person wears or doesn't wear a helmet while driving a motorcycle.    After all, you more likely to die or be left in a vegetative state if you don't wear one and that death or disability is a cost to society.   The bigger point is that what is and isn't allowed is not viewed and has never been viewed exclusively through the lens of individual freedom.

The bigger point I was making is that we have many laws infringing on individual freedom even when those freedoms in theory to not harm others (at the very least they harm others or have the potential to harm others much less than masks or vaccination).


Bringing up the Supreme Court distracts from the discussion and adds a political element, in my opinion.

It is relevant. If someday a law is proposed that we all get chipped with medical information, it's going to have to get by the courts. If someday a wrongful termination suit is the result of being fired for not being vaccinated, it could go all the way up to the Supreme Court. Same if someone is denied access to a venue or a medical facility. These are all plausible scenarios. I know it's hard to keep the political aspect out of it but the article discusses conservative Judges doing the unexpected in some cases. These won't be partisan decisions. They will reflect the interpretation of the Constitution and other legal cases.

[Shoelessjoe]

The Supreme Court ruled a while ago, I'm going to say about 100 but I'm not sure, that schools can require that students get vaccinated.  It was required by our local school district to have specific shots.  Small pox and polio are basically eradicated world wide. Around the year of 1900 the average life expectancy in the US was only 40 years.  Today that number has doubled to 79 years.  A large reason for this was vaccinations. 

Lenn, in PA doesn't have a helmet law and Florida is another state that doesn't.

I think that the better example would be cigarette smoking being band in public places, work place or restaurant because of second hand smoke.

I remember a high school history teacher once told us our freedom is limited to protect the rights of others.

These states that have low vaccination rates like Mississippi which has less then 30% of it's population which is only 2.9 million.  Just wait a few weeks after fourth of July parties the infection rates in these areas of the country where the vaccination rates are low will have outbreaks.  Maybe then some of them will start to see the light but by then for some it might be to late.