Quick question re: Kadarius Toney

[DaveBrown74]

And it

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Yeah although I don't think anyone is saying that non-vaxing should be illegal. So it's not quite the same thing.

Regardless.  The premise is the same AND there are those that believe it should be mandated so there are parallels




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[kingm56]

TD: It's none of your business whether he got vaccinated or not.  Who are you to judge what he does with his body?  Or do you believe you also have the right to tell a woman whether or not to get an abortion?  Bob

Bob,

I'll concede your point if you can tell me how a women's abortion impacts you, the health system, or our economy.
Unlike abortions, the choice to vaccinate has clear impacts on others, especially the elderly and medically vulnerable.  Vaccinations is our ONLY viable defense at eradicating this horrendous virus.  So yes, it is our business; in fact, in my line of work, we have the authority to verify someone's vaccination.  I am thankful prior generations were concerned with the greater good; otherwise, polio and multiple other virus would still exist today....   

Here are 14 diseases eliminated by vaccinations.  If people thought as Slugs, they would still exists today; yet, he has the gull to call others ignorant.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

[DaveBrown74]

Unlike abortions, the choice to vaccinate has clear impacts on others

I think the pro-life community would disagree with this point. They would surely regard the aborted fetus as an "other" who has been impacted by the decision to abort.

And therein lies the crux of the entire abortion debate. No point in going down that whole road in a football forum, however I think you are unlikely to persuade any pro lifers here that abortion does not also have "clear impacts on others."

[kingm56]

I think the pro-life community would disagree with this point. They would surely regard the aborted fetus as an "other" who has been impacted by the decision to abort.

And therein lies the crux of the entire abortion debate. No point in going down that whole road in a football forum, however I think you are unlikely to persuade any pro lifers here that abortion does not also have "clear impacts on others."

Dave, I don't see the correlation; abortions are limited to two people and only two people; a virus has the ability to impact billions.  It's not the same; not even close....

[Blue Fire]

One you are taking a clear action to end a life. The other you are not. You can not definitely say if you are unvaccinated that it will kill someone else but in an abortion you are most definitely without a doubt ending a life.

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Dave, I don't see the correlation; abortions are limited to two people and only two people; a virus has the ability to impact billions.  It's not the same; not even close....

Abortion has an impact on more than 2 people 1 of which is the baby that is killed, i think that would be a major factor as that is a guaranteed life loss, someone getting Covid isn

[Bob In PA]

I'll concede your point if you can tell me how a women's abortion impacts you, the health system, or our economy.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

King: I'm not going to pick on minor details in your post (for example, polio actually still exists today, as you probably know; it even says so in the link you posted) but rather attempt to answer your question.

You misconceive my point.  It was not to equate the two subjects (as we both know, they are not equal) but rather to INTENTIONALLY AND UNFAIRLY present a conundrum to the poster.

My purpose was to illustrate as best as I could how it must feel for Toney to hear other people say they have a RIGHT to judge how he makes a serious and important medical decision.

As we both know, the vaccine is very effective. A person who's fully vaccinated (as I am) has decided it's better/safer for them to take the tiny risk that the vaccination will produce a bad result than to risk getting covid.

But I'm an old man at greater risk than Toney of dying from the disease.  Toney may well have decided that FOR HIM, the risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine is greater than the risk of dying from the virus.

The attempt to shame, bully or simply cajole other people with regard to making difficult personal medical decisions is a VERY slippery slope. I believe we cannot allow that to happen and still have a "free" country.

If we can be "forced" to take a vaccine, maybe we can also be forced to have medical experimentation done on our bodies.  I don't think we should go down that road, today or ever.  Hope that answers your question.

Bob

[PSUBeirut]

We have a slew of vaccinations we require students to have before they enter school.  Once fully approved, the COVID vaccine should be exactly the same.   Ignoring the science of all this should not be an option once it's fully approved.  It's incredibly frustrating as an educator and parent to know that we're about to head into ANOTHER school year with all these necessary protocols and restrictions, just because a large number of our population has been successfully indoctrinated to not trust science and doctors anymore in the name of "freedom". 

So let's hurry up and get these vaccines fully approved for all ages, start making them mandatory from schools and businesses, and put this latest ugly political chapter into the history books already.

[Painter]

Once again, the original topic betrays us. It is indeed a reflection of what is so seriously wrong with our country which is that our notion of freedom has become pernicious. Much of it is a consequence of the politics of low self-esteem.

Certainly, there is no worse affliction for anyone to have to bear than low self-esteem. While it is obvious that racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and religious bigotry are rampant, they are all a reflection of the insecurities, and delusions of a nation which has for so long has shouted, "We're Number One", not hypocritically, but rather as a defense against the truth, and the disgrace we all share.

[Bob In PA]

We have a slew of vaccinations we require students to have before they enter school.  Once fully approved, the COVID vaccine should be exactly the same.   Ignoring the science of all this should not be an option once it's fully approved.  It's incredibly frustrating as an educator and parent to know that we're about to head into ANOTHER school year with all these necessary protocols and restrictions, just because a large number of our population has been successfully indoctrinated to not trust science and doctors anymore in the name of "freedom". 

So let's hurry up and get these vaccines fully approved for all ages, start making them mandatory from schools and businesses, and put this latest ugly political chapter into the history books already.

PSU:  I see where you're coming from, and I see you bending over backwards to be reasonable and thoughtful, but I can't agree at this time.  We don't know the long-term effects, especially on children. 

IMO, we must wait until enough time has passed to allow us to observe and study long-term consequences (if any) to everyone, but especially to kids. In particular, what is the optimal age at which it should be given?

As you probably know, this type of vaccine is unlike any other that has ever been mass-distributed in all of human history.  It is not a simple cure, like the polio vaccine (for example), but works in a different way.

Bob

[katkavage]

Painter,
Sometimes, as history has shown us, and yes, we could all learn much from studying history, great civilizations eventually tumble due to many different circumstances, mostly brought on not by an invasion or war, but by their own bloat and mistakes. Sadly, the way things are now, we are heading in that direction. It won't happen overnight and maybe not in any of our lifetimes, but that is the direction it is going.

[Bob In PA]

Painter,
Sometimes, as history has shown us, and yes, we could all learn much from studying history, great civilizations eventually tumble due to many different circumstances, mostly brought on not by an invasion or war, but by their own bloat and mistakes. Sadly, the way things are now, we are heading in that direction. It won't happen overnight and maybe not in any of our lifetimes, but that is the direction it is going.

kat: I think we might disagree more than we agree, but I agree with you on this point (probably for completely different reasons, though LOL).  Bob

[MightyGiants]

TD: It's none of your business whether he got vaccinated or not.  Who are you to judge what he does with his body?  Or do you believe you also have the right to tell a woman whether or not to get an abortion?  Bob

It's sort of humorous, Bob's point is so off the rails that you could just as easily say:

"It's none of your business if Toney works out or not.  Who are you to judge what he does with his body?   Or do you believe you also have a right to tell a woman whether or not to get an abortion?"  Could be Bob


At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if Toney refusing to get vaccinated helps or hurt the team (factually and logically speaking, there is no legit argument that favors not getting vaccinated)?   

Toney opted to hurt his team by refusing to get vaccinated.  As the fans that either directly or indirectly pay his salary they have a right to judge that action.

[Bob In PA]

It's sort of humorous, Bob's point is so off the rails that you could just as easily say:

"It's none of your business if Toney works out or not.  Who are you to judge what he does with his body?   Or do you believe you also have a right to tell a woman whether or not to get an abortion?"  Could be Bob


At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if Toney refusing to get vaccinated helps or hurt the team (factually and logically speaking, there is no legit argument that favors not getting vaccinated)?   

Toney opted to hurt his team by refusing to get vaccinated.  As the fans that either directly or indirectly pay his salary they have a right to judge that action.

Rich: Apples and oranges.  Bob