OMG Omicron

[MightyGiants]

Where is the evidence to show that the vaccines prevented infection against the original Covid 19?

Messenger RNA (mRNA) BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) and mRNA-1273 (Moderna) COVID-19 vaccines have been shown to be effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 in randomized placebo-controlled Phase III trials (1,2); however, the benefits of these vaccines for preventing asymptomatic and symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) infection, particularly when administered in real-world conditions, is less well understood. Using prospective cohorts of health care personnel, first responders, and other essential and frontline workers* in eight U.S. locations during December 14, 2020

[MightyGiants]

Rich: Once upon a time, learned people were utterly convinced the Earth was flat.  If we would have been alive then, we too would have sworn it was true.  Good thing Twitter wasn't around to "cancel" Copernicus!  Bob

Also, since the ancient Greeks (at least) that hasn't been the case

https://www.skeptic.com/insight/flat-earth-conspiracy-theory/?gclid=CjwKCAiAzrWOBhBjEiwAq85QZ7w7LMVJNl7L4H5wJXY8nwrNGKnx2qCclUxm-uRUif73Ql8VEwW1QBoCuRQQAvD_BwE

[Ed Vette]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm

That's the original trial testing. Where is the data that proves that there were no covid case breakthroughs of original covid in fully vaccinated people?

[MightyGiants]

That's the original trial testing. Where is the data that proves that there were no covid case breakthroughs of original covid in fully vaccinated people?

That's not the "original trial testing".  Look at the dates of the study, December 14, 2020

[Ed Vette]

That's not the "original trial testing".  Look at the dates of the study, December 14, 2020

[Ed Vette]

So let

[DaveBrown74]

So let

[MightyGiants]

So let

[DaveBrown74]

To be fair, if we're talking about leadership, nobody high profile spread more misinformation about covid since the start of this whole event than Trump. And in his case it often seemed deliberate. Considering that much/most of the anti-vax movement is concentrated among his base, it is hard to blame their unwillingness to take the vax on someone else's supposed claim that the vax stopped the spread of covid. Their leader is the one who initially planted the idea in their minds that covid was no big deal and that it would disappear very soon, as he repeatedly did in early/mid 2020 when it first became a massive national and global crisis. I know Trump has publicly supported the vax since then, but if we're looking to blame leadership for anything, I would argue that Trump's initial downplaying of this virus and other unhelpful messaging (like mocking people for wearing masks) was a key factor in driving the resistance to the vaccine and other protective measures.

[Ed Vette]

https://youtu.be/PNrbXN6F-mc

Talk about mixed messages. Fauci.."You do not need to wear a mask". I don't want to make this political but both Presidents made claim that the vaccines will protect against the virus. Once people had gotten both shots, the masks came off. The reality is however that the vaccines will not protect a person from getting the virus but it will most likely protect against the severity, having to go to a hospital or resulting in death. They needed to be more specific when they all knew the vaccines would not protect against getting. They didn't do it because with human nature, it would have held back many from getting the vaccine. As for variants, there are no specific reports that break down which virus a person tests positive for when they get their results back. Are there public reports based on cumulative numbers? Are there reports by month as to whether the infection is a breakthrough and what variant it is or if it was the original virus? I'd like to see a breakdown as to:
x amount were fully vaccinated and still tested positive by original virus, by Delta, by Omicron. By month.

You have to know they have this information.

Why wasn't it defined what 'highly effective" was? Did they not know? The masks came off and more people were infected who were fully vaccinated and they spread it to those who were not vaccinated and how many of those people died?

"Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, tells TODAY the results reported by drug maker Moderna are

[Ed Vette]

"Without worry or fear"

https://youtu.be/2iOi29_3EEk

"Still need to wear a mask in large crowds..." Yet nobody is wearing masks in large crowds at games anymore because the narrative changed?

https://youtu.be/fXGmyE_XYGA

The changing messages and mixed messages and failure to be specific has confused many Americans. This is my point. Were they deliberately trying to be misleading? Who knows but it sure looks like it to me when they held back early on from being specific. The masses thought that if vaccinated, you won't get Covid. At some point, people just stop listening.

Which resulted in this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/30/provincetown-covid-outbreak-vaccinated/

[Bob In PA]

Of all people who hold elective (or appointive) political office worldwide, about 99% are either unqualified, incompetent, or both.  About one percent are neither.  Bob

[Ed Vette]

Of all people who hold elective (or appointive) political office worldwide, about 99% are either unqualified, incompetent, or both.  About one percent are neither.  Bob

Well those are just a couple of examples. Remember the guy before him really went from one extreme to the other. Some dangerous stuff too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/08/24/some-americans-are-tragically-still-drinking-bleach-as-a-coronavirus-cure/?sh=30aa629c6748

They fail to realize that a lot of people are very stupid and they need to have it spelled out to them.

[DaveBrown74]

These are good examples for sure. I knew Fauci misspoke on a couple of occasions (wasn't sure if he was whom you meant as "leadership") but I forgot about that Biden one. I do get your point about the impact of misinformation from people who have that big of a platform.

[MightyGiants]

So, to this day there are fully vaccinated people do not wear masks in public. I see more than half the people in supermarkets not wearing masks and I know that they are vaccinated in most cases. There have been to many ambiguous messages from the beginning.

All these videos you posted are old, with the newest being July 8th.   At the time of each video, the message sent was correct.   When you are dealing with a virus that has mutated and changed over time and a new vaccine where we needed to learn how long it would last, the guidelines will change over time.   Look, change doesn't mean the old positions were false inaccurate.   

Beyond that, there are many other factors that went into policy that it seems you were not aware of.   The government initially was quite aggressive with the lose the mask if you get vaccinated policy not just because it was safe (at least for a time) for people who got vaccinated to lose their masks, but the idea of going mask free was a huge carrot to convince people to get vaccinated (getting more people vaccinated is a huge life savers).   So decisions were quite a bit more complicated than you are portraying.  The goal was to save as many lives as possible so if there was a huge increase in vaccinations due to the promise of losing the masks, that would offset the small uptick that the mask-free policy created.

In addition, vaccines don't protect people by preventing them from getting infected.  Sure, some do, but the overarching protection of a vaccine is to keep one from getting really sick or worse dying.   To this day the vaccines have been highly effective in preventing death or severe illness from the variants.   In fact, at one point there was the idea that if we could get the overwhelming portion of the population vaccinated, Covid may not be eradicated but the danger and disruption from it would be lowered to that of say the flu.  So as we tried to get society back to normal (there are challenges with many Covid restrictions) this was one line of thinking.

So based on the times of the videos, none of what you posted would qualify as "misinformation" especially as it relates to actual misinformation like the blog Bob posted

Of all people who hold elective (or appointive) political office worldwide, about 99% are either unqualified, incompetent, or both.  About one percent are neither.  Bob

This is an extremely hyperbolic claim.   Sure I would say a third to may half of elected officials are unqualified.   Appointees vary depending on the position, with most in the sciences and public health being qualified.   What I find disturbing by this hyperbolic claim is that it opens the gates for people to believe dangerous liars like Robert Malone, whose blog Bob posted a link to.    The first step in getting people to believe crazy conspiracy theorists, conmen, charllotons and other bad actors is convince people not to believe the people they should be listening to.