ALL DANIEL JONES POSTS AND DISCUSSIONS HERE

[AZGiantFan]

I think it is fair to say that there is no precise, widely-agreed upon definition of "franchise QB." Everyone has their own take on the phrase, which is fine. It's not a phrase with a precise definition.

To me, and this is just my personal opinion, I think it's hard to firmly declare any QB a "franchise QB" if he's not clearly top 10. If you start extending it beyond the top 10, you're getting to a point where you're close to saying that half or nearly half of the league's starters are "franchise QBs." I don't personally feel that way myself. I think the "franchise QB" label has a more exclusive scope than that. I think 10 is probably the most. Again, this is my personal opinion of the definition of the phrase, and I'm not saying those who disagree are wrong.

I do not see Jones as a top 10 QB this year, and I don't think many objective people do. I have felt and said for a while now that he is a middle of the road starter, which is hardly an insult or even being a "detractor." If someone says you're the 14th-17th best QB in the world, that's not exactly an insult in my book. But to me that's not a "franchise QB."

Yeah, these terms are horribly imprecise.  To me a franchise QB is a guy whose team doesn't think of replacing him.  Eli was rarely in the top ten of QBs but the Giants never thought seriously of replacing him until the end.  And, IMO he was elite for 2 playoff runs and the 2011 season.  But he was clearly a franchise QB, IMO.

The conundrum with DJ is that he is ranked 17 playing on an offense that is far below 17th.  And some blame him for not elevating the other players.  An elite QB can elevate a good offense to very good, and an average offense to a good offense, but I don't think the QB has been born who can elevate a bad offense to a very good offense.  I think DJ has elevated a bad offense to a slightly below offense.  And the question is, what could he elevate an average or good offense to.  And how would playing on such offenses change his ranking, because rankings are dynamic, not static.  He wouldn't be Mahomes in the KC offense, but I doubt he'd rank 17th.

[Rambo89]

There is a vast gulf between a "perfect" situation and the garbage they saddled him with, up to and including this year, although the coaching HAS improved this year.  But the offensive roster hasn't.

How many QBs in the league have a threat at RB like Jones does with Barkley?

[Jclayton92]

Yeah, these terms are horribly imprecise.  To me a franchise QB is a guy whose team doesn't think of replacing him.  Eli was rarely in the top ten of QBs but the Giants never thought seriously of replacing him until the end.  And, IMO he was elite for 2 playoff runs and the 2011 season.  But he was clearly a franchise QB, IMO.

The conundrum with DJ is that he is ranked 17 playing on an offense that is far below 17th.  And some blame him for not elevating the other players.  An elite QB can elevate a good offense to very good, and an average offense to a good offense, but I don't think the QB has been born who can elevate a bad offense to a very good offense.  I think DJ has elevated a bad offense to a slightly below offense.  And the question is, what could he elevate an average or good offense to.  And how would playing on such offenses change his ranking, because rankings are dynamic, not static.  He wouldn't be Mahomes in the KC offense, but I doubt he'd rank 17th.

Where would you rate the offense in 2019? The Barkley, Tete, Shep, Slayton, EE Offense with a line that was ranked like 19th. Do you think the production his rookie year is his ceiling, minus the fumbles, or could be his average yearly production with a stabilized offense?

[AZGiantFan]

Where would you rate the offense in 2019? The Barkley, Tete, Shep, Slayton, EE Offense with a line that was ranked like 19th. Do you think the production his rookie year is his ceiling, minus the fumbles, or could be his average yearly production with a stabilized offense?

The ranking of the 2019 offense is right about the same as this one.

2019: pts per game 18 - yards per game 23

2022: pts per game 20 - yards per game 20

[Jclayton92]

The ranking of the 2019 offense is right about the same as this one.

2019: pts per game 18 - yards per game 23

2022: pts per game 20 - yards per game 20

I agree they're similar, even though I believe 2019 had better weapons, I think this staff is better.

[AZGiantFan]

I agree they're similar, even though I believe 2019 had better weapons, I think this staff is better.

I agree the staff is better than 2019, and a lot better than the 2020-2021 staff.  But the offensive roster is no better, and probably worse, IMO.

[kingm56]

I agree they're similar, even though I believe 2019 had better weapons, I think this staff is better.

The key factor should be obvious...it's a healthy Barkley

[Rambo89]

Yeah, these terms are horribly imprecise.  To me a franchise QB is a guy whose team doesn't think of replacing him.  Eli was rarely in the top ten of QBs but the Giants never thought seriously of replacing him until the end.  And, IMO he was elite for 2 playoff runs and the 2011 season.  But he was clearly a franchise QB, IMO.

Eli was consistently in the Top 10 in TD's for the prime of his career. 

[kingm56]

Eli was consistently in the Top 10 in TD's for the prime of his career. 

Yeah, I'm not sure what stats Rich Is referring to as Eli routinely finished in the top 10 of several statistical categories during his prime: 2005 to 2012. As you accurately pointed out, he was #2 in TDs his sophomore season.  He finished his career in the top 10 of several statistical categories. 

[todge]

Think it shows that Jones is an excellent game manager but in a shootout isn't going to win you games.

And this is why you don't get respect Ted.  When you come out in personal attack mode like this then get bent out of shape then cry to the moderators like you're a victim.

We all have our biases like any human.  You are no different.

I've been on this Board and it's predecessor for over 25 years. I could care less about respect from people that don't agree with me. We needed a DJ thread because constant negativity on the same topic can bring an entire Board down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BluesCruz]

Daniel Jones is a top 12 QB in the NFL

He is not what is keeping us from a trophy

Too many dropped and unsecured balls Saturday.

Hopefully, we help Jeff Saturday secure a better draft position on Sunday and slip into the dance with a practice game to spare

Actually, it would be nice to defeat the Eagles with our subs. I hope TT lights it up for 40

[DaveBrown74]

Daniel Jones is a top 12 QB in the NFL

May I ask what measure(s) you are basing this on?

[Rambo89]

I've been on this Board and it's predecessor for over 25 years. I could care less about respect from people that don't agree with me. We needed a DJ thread because constant negativity on the same topic can bring an entire Board down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You care about it enough to complain to the moderators about it.

[Rambo89]

Daniel Jones is a top 12 QB in the NFL

He is not what is keeping us from a trophy

Too many dropped and unsecured balls Saturday.

Hopefully, we help Jeff Saturday secure a better draft position on Sunday and slip into the dance with a practice game to spare

Actually, it would be nice to defeat the Eagles with our subs. I hope TT lights it up for 40

The Giants passing offense and rushing defense are near the bottom of the league.  Those are their two weaknesses keeping the Giants from being an elite team.

[DaveBrown74]

The Giants passing offense and rushing defense are near the bottom of the league.  Those are their two weaknesses keeping the Giants from being an elite team.

I agree, and those are pretty significant weaknesses, especially the first one given this is a passing league.

The organization has already made very impressive strides since the end of the horrific Gettleman era, but we still have a ways to go with this roster. The nice thing is that this time Schoen will go into the offseason with some cash in his pocket, unlike last year when they were basically broke (cap-wise).