ALL DANIEL JONES POSTS AND DISCUSSIONS HERE

[AZGiantFan]

When you use Jones's individual ranking in total yards then imply its out of 32, you're not making an apples-to-apples comparison. In a 32-team league, the Giants passing offense ranks 28th in yards-per-game and 27th in yards-per-attempt. If you look at Jones's yards-per-attempt for qualified passers this season, he's 27th as well (so right in line with the team rankings). Jones is decidedly not middle-of-the-pack in this regard. Doesn't change your arguments about the quality of the offense, but it's categorically incorrect to imply that the passing production of Jones has been anything but well below-average this season.

You have inadvertantly made a point about his durability.  With the stat you cite coupled with the fact that the he is 16 in yards passing the implication is that QBs who are "better" than him have lost time to injury.

IAC, we'll see what happens.  I think there will be teams that will look at him differently, that see that the Giants are near the bottom of the league in pass attempts and some of the other points I made that you chose not to address and offer him better coin than some folks think.  They'll say, look what he's accomplished with a lousy OL and lousy receivers - our OL and receivers are way better, so imagine how he would do with them - and outbid the Giants.  Which will make a bunch of you guys happy.

[TONKA56]

https://youtu.be/U6G4FLF6WvY

[MightyGiants]

look at kylar Murray's and Jones stats over 50 games, then look at Murray's 5 year 230 million, and his record and then Jones' plus what people are thinking Jones should make. Scary.

Also for some reason I thought we were in the Daniel Jones thread.....

Murray is a prime example of why you need to look beyond the stats.   The Cards are no doubt regretting the contract they gave to Murray

[sxdxca38]

Here is the Bellinger dropped pass from the 3rd quarter of Sunday night's game that I had mentioned before.

It was actually 3rd and 5 and not 3rd and 9, and the pass seems to have been slightly behind Bellinger, and not on the numbers as I and Chris Collingsworth had previously mentioned, so please forgive me.

However even though it was slightly behind him, this seems like it was a pass that most starting NFL TE's should catch, especially on a crucial 3rd down, to keep a drive alive.

If you feel it was a bad pass, or a bad catch or maybe even both, you are entitled to your opinion, I am just sharing the pics for you to make your own call.
 

[H-Town G-Fan]

You have inadvertantly made a point about his durability.  With the stat you cite coupled with the fact that the he is 16 in yards passing the implication is that QBs who are "better" than him have lost time to injury.

Why is that the implication, precisely? Because it fits your supposition? Sorry, but QBs with better yards-per-attempt and less overall yardage have been benched for production reasons (Zach Wilson, Marcus Mariota). Its incumbent upon you to support your position with evidence and not self-serving assumptions.

And moreover, how does this support the idea that Jones is an above-average passer in any way? If these "better" QBs are getting injured and replaced by backups... well the teams overall are still performing far better on average than the Jones-led Giants! The teams idea really neutralizes your argument from the beginning. At best, your argument supports the idea that Jones is healthier than average (a proposition that for this season at least I can agree with), but not an average passer.

IAC, we'll see what happens.  I think there will be teams that will look at him differently, that see that the Giants are near the bottom of the league in pass attempts and some of the other points I made that you chose not to address and offer him better coin than some folks think. They'll say, look what he's accomplished with a lousy OL and lousy receivers - our OL and receivers are way better, so imagine how he would do with them - and outbid the Giants.  Which will make a bunch of you guys happy.

I chose not to address your other points because I wasn't involved in your conversation, but felt the need to correct a patently false idea that the Giants or Daniel Jones are middle-of-the-pack in passing. And as I said before, there are certainly valid criticisms about the quality of the Giants receiving corps, so why would I address mitigating factors that I already agreed with? I also don't feel the need to debate with you every point you (or anyone else) has. If you want me to, I can surely try.

The ad hominem attacks about people being happy about Jones departing are unnecessary and truly a refuge for a weak argument.

[AZGiantFan]

Why is that the implication, precisely? Because it fits your supposition? Sorry, but QBs with better yards-per-attempt and less overall yardage have been benched for production reasons (Zach Wilson, Marcus Mariota). Its incumbent upon you to support your position with evidence and not self-serving assumptions.

And moreover, how does this support the idea that Jones is an above-average passer in any way? If these "better" QBs are getting injured and replaced by backups... well the teams overall are still performing far better on average than the Jones-led Giants! The teams idea really neutralizes your argument from the beginning. At best, your argument supports the idea that Jones is healthier than average (a proposition that for this season at least I can agree with), but not an average passer.

I chose not to address your other points because I wasn't involved in your conversation, but felt the need to correct a patently false idea that the Giants or Daniel Jones are middle-of-the-pack in passing. And as I said before, there are certainly valid criticisms about the quality of the Giants receiving corps, so why would I address mitigating factors that I already agreed with? I also don't feel the need to debate with you every point you (or anyone else) has. If you want me to, I can surely try.

The ad hominem attacks about people being happy about Jones departing are unnecessary and truly a refuge for a weak argument.

This might all be the case if this were a debating board and not a discussion board.  As it is I have my opinion and I'm not trying to change your mind, nor am I going to be drawn into a debate when soon enough we will see what happens.  I'll just add that acknowledging the fact that the are people here who want to see DJ's back is not an ad hominem, it is a recognition of reality.  And if you read my post on what I think will happen you'd be hard-pressed to discover a narrative.

[H-Town G-Fan]

This might all be the case if this were a debating board and not a discussion board.  As it is I have my opinion and I'm not trying to change your mind, nor am I going to be drawn into a debate when soon enough we will see what happens.  I'll just add that acknowledging the fact that the are people here who want to see DJ's back is not an ad hominem, it is a recognition of reality.  And if you read my post on what I think will happen you'd be hard-pressed to discover a narrative.

You can have your opinions. But when you state something as fact that is demonstrably wrong, that's not an "opinion" beyond question on a "discussion board." You stated something as fact (Daniel Jones is a middle-of-the-pack passer by production this season) that is demonstrably wrong by virtually any meaningful (i.e. rate based) metric. I wasn't debating you, but pointing out that argument is, again, demonstrably wrong. You tried to come back with some spin on it based on conjecture and speculation, which even if assumed didn't even support your position. You now try to also spin an ad hominem attack into something about "acknowledging reality" (which is certainly up for deba... discussion). And even if one were to believe you, then what actual purpose does such a comment serve? I'd say not very much, which evidences its true intent.

Also, I never mentioned anything about a narrative (or approached an accusation that you have some predisposition on the Daniel Jones matter). Your unwarranted defensiveness is telling.

Suffice it to say I disagree with your "opinion" that Jones is a middle-of-the-pack passer this year.

[Rambo89]

If you feel it was a bad pass, or a bad catch or maybe even both, you are entitled to your opinion, I am just sharing the pics for you to make your own call.
 

Like the Slayton play in the first Washington game I think this one was on both players.  Problem for me is that we are seeing too many of these with the Giants and it's not just one receiver it's multiple receivers.  It shows the argument can be made that Jones hasn't elevated those around him just as much as they haven't elevated him.

[MightyGiants]

For what it's worth, PFF dinged Bellinger for one dropped pass

[Jclayton92]

Murray is a prime example of why you need to look beyond the stats.  The Cards are no doubt regretting the contract they gave to Murray

Stats from both Jones and Murray's first 50 games say Murray's the better QB and I'd agree with that. I still wouldn't have paid him, just like I wouldn't pay Jones.

Daniel Jones- 1,638 ATT 1,040 CMP    63.5 PCT 10,915 YDS 57 TD 33 Int    86.0 Rating 19-30-1 Record

Kyler Murray- 1,754 ATT 1,170 CMP    66.7PCT 12,471 YDS 75 TD 36 INT    93.0 Rating 24-25-1 Record

[MightyGiants]

Stats from both Jones and Murray's first 50 games say Murray's the better QB and I'd agree with that. I still wouldn't have paid him, just like I wouldn't pay Jones.

Daniel Jones- 1,638 ATT 1,040 CMP    63.5 PCT 10,915 YDS 57 TD 33 Int    86.0 Rating 19-30-1 Record

Kyler Murray- 1,754 ATT 1,170 CMP    66.7PCT 12,471 YDS 75 TD 36 INT    93.0 Rating 24-25-1 Record

The stats said Murray was the better QB, which is a good reason not to just listen to stats.   DJ is lights out superior to Murray in the critical traits like work ethic, toughness, and leadership

[kingm56]

The stats said Murray was the better QB, which is a good reason not to just listen to stats.   DJ is lights out superior to Murray in the critical traits like work ethic, toughness, and leadership

Murray is the better QB; although, they're probably both in the same tier, which is Exactly what the stats say.  Moreover, I would agree to look beyond the stats for a single year, as it could be an anomaly...it happens.  I wouldn't advocate for looking beyond four years and 55 Games started of data.  At that point, history has repetitively shown us you are who you are...

I also agree with Jess, I wouldn't have signed Murray for the same reasons I'm not in favor of a franchise-type deal for DJ....

[sxdxca38]

Like the Slayton play in the first Washington game I think this one was on both players.  Problem for me is that we are seeing too many of these with the Giants and it's not just one receiver it's multiple receivers.  It shows the argument can be made that Jones hasn't elevated those around him just as much as they haven't elevated him.

Good points, and to add to what you are saying the first two passes in thay game that DJ threw to Slayton weren't completed either, so Slayton wasn't helping to elevate DJs game as you brought out

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Murray has had better skill players to throw to I believe!

OLINE probably equal to ours maybe slightly better but not by much.

[MightyGiants]

Murray is the better QB; although, they're probably both in the same tier, which is Exactly what the stats say.  Moreover, I would agree to look beyond the stats for a single year, as it could be an anomaly...it happens.  I wouldn't advocate for looking beyond four years and 55 Games started of data.  At that point, history has repetitively shown us you are who you are...

I don't think this will be proven true in the end.  I think, in the end, Jones will prove to be the better QB.  While Jones is having career years in many areas, notice Murray's stats are now dropping.  I think those traits that Jones is, far in a way, superior are a lot more important than I think some appreciate. 

Rest assured, whoever signs Daniel Jones this offseason will not have to put a homework clause in his contract.