NFT - NY Knicks - 2023-2024

[Philosophers]

He's got $68 million tied up in shooting guards alone and no none of them are considered to be good shooters and we don't have a real small forward on the roster. I think things were so bad for so long that even a modicum of success blinds some of us to the awful construction of this roster. Did I mention our backup point guard really is nothing more than an undersized 2 guard? 

That modicum of success follows what 20 years of subpar play?  I'll take it.  You are right the roster is not perfect.  But, it continues to evolve. 

[madbadger]

That modicum of success follows what 20 years of subpar play?  I'll take it.  You are right the roster is not perfect.  But, it continues to evolve. 

Not really. No cap space. A couple ugly contracts of Rose's doing and two years in a row we haven't had a first round pick because we needed to free up space to take Brunson.

I'll take back everything I've said about Rose if he can con someone to taking Randal and Fournier off his hands. Until that happens the ability to improve this roster is non existent. We're in the donut hole. Not good enough to win it all and attract top free agents and not bad enough to improve in the draft.

[DaveBrown74]

Not really. No cap space. A couple ugly contracts of Rose's doing and two years in a row we haven't had a first round pick because we needed to free up space to take Brunson.

I'll take back everything I've said about Rose if he can con someone to taking Randal and Fournier off his hands. Until that happens the ability to improve this roster is non existent. We're in the donut hole. Not good enough to win it all and attract top free agents and not bad enough to improve in the draft.

The Knicks don't have the cap space to bring in a big time free agent in 2023, but I would respectfully disagree that they're not in a pretty good position overall. First off, despite not having a first rounder this year, they have excellent draft capital overall. 10 first rounders in the next 7 years will give them plenty of flexibility moving forward.

Secondly the team is young. I think it's reasonable to expect players like Quickley, Grimes, Sims, McBride, and Barrett to get better collectively. So even just running it back this year can arguably yield even better results, as nobody on the team is aging out. Who is even 30 on this team that matters?

Third, how is the roster construction that bad? I mean for years the issue was we didn't have a point guard, which I harped on all the time. When Brunson was signed, certain individuals here (no need to call people out but I do remember pretty clearly) seemed down on it as they thought he was just a "good" player for whom the Knicks overpaid. I think it's fair to say that the Knicks did not just do well but in fact did great in that transaction. As for having no small forwards, I'd say Barrett and Hart fit that bill. Both are players who have an inside/outside game and get rebounds. If you want to refuse to call them small forwards and insist they're shooting guards, go ahead, but they both seem more than capable in the 3 role.

The Knicks are far from perfect and they are definitely not a title contender in any way, but they're young and have a ton of picks. Yes the cap situation for this year is very limited, but that won't be the case in future years, and they're young enough that they can have a macro plan in that sense. It can't be that it's all gloom and doom for this team unless they're literally a top 2 or 3 NBA team. That was never going to happen overnight with this franchise. When during the last 20-plus years have you ever felt better about the overall direction of the franchise? That's a pretty long time, no?

[DaveBrown74]

So who knows how true it is, but the rumor going around today is that the Knicks and Sixers are considering a trade that would involve the Knicks moving Randle, Barrett, Mitchell Robinson plus either two or three first rounders in exchange for Embiid.

Thoughts?

[Philosophers]

So who knows how true it is, but the rumor going around today is that the Knicks and Sixers are considering a trade that would involve the Knicks moving Randle, Barrett, Mitchell Robinson plus either two or three first rounders in exchange for Embiid.

Thoughts?

I like Joel Embiid a lot but three first rounders plus three starters is too rich in my opinion.

Embiid is also 29.  It's not like he's 24.

[DaveBrown74]

I like Joel Embiid a lot but three first rounders plus three starters is too rich in my opinion.

Embiid is also 29.  It's not like he's 24.

I'm with you. The other big issue I have is Embiid never plays more than 65 games a year. He has never once played a 70 game season and he has been around for a while. His usual range is 52-67 games.

Embiid is sick though. Clear top 3 player in the league. If the move is to try to win in the next couple years, his age doesn't bother me. 29 isn't young but these guys are good until their mid 30s, some later.

Bottom line you have to ask yourself if the Knicks are championship material after they do that trade. I think the answer is no, myself. They'd have Brunson and Embiid, which is a very good 1-2 punch, but there wouldn't be much else. I guess they could potentially attract another top player, but I'm not sure how that would work cap-wise.

Apparently the other players they're mulling over are Karl-Anthony Towns and Donovan Mitchell.

[Philosophers]

I'm with you. The other big issue I have is Embiid never plays more than 65 games a year. He has never once played a 70 game season and he has been around for a while. His usual range is 52-67 games.

Embiid is sick though. Clear top 3 player in the league. If the move is to try to win in the next couple years, his age doesn't bother me. 29 isn't young but these guys are good until their mid 30s, some later.

Bottom line you have to ask yourself if the Knicks are championship material after they do that trade. I think the answer is no, myself. They'd have Brunson and Embiid, which is a very good 1-2 punch, but there wouldn't be much else. I guess they could potentially attract another top player, but I'm not sure how that would work cap-wise.

Apparently the other players they're mulling over are Karl-Anthony Towns and Donovan Mitchell.

I think Towns has a lot of mileage on him.  Donovan Mitchell proved last year that he is a very good player but like others here have posted, he's a bit redundant with Brunson and both are undersized for a backcourt.

The problem with the Knicks is that they can't get lucky and draft a player who becomes a legit star.  They certainly have had enough picks in top 10.  They seem snake bitten in that regard.

[DaveBrown74]

I think Towns has a lot of mileage on him.  Donovan Mitchell proved last year that he is a very good player but like others here have posted, he's a bit redundant with Brunson and both are undersized for a backcourt.

The problem with the Knicks is that they can't get lucky and draft a player who becomes a legit star.  They certainly have had enough picks in top 10.  They seem snake bitten in that regard.

Towns is two or three years younger than Embiid, although it seems like he has missed his share of games in recent years, so I get your point.

I agree about Donovan Mitchell. He's clearly a talented scorer but probably less of a fit and less multi-dimensional.

It goes without saying that the Knicks should not feel compelled to do something here. Right now, they may not quite be championship material, but they're a good 45-50 win team that should be top five in the East and has already shown they're capable of winning at least one playoff series. Obviously, we all would like to see them do better than that, but this is now longer some inept franchise. They gave fans plenty of reasons to cheer and to be engaged into the early summer. They've lost nobody and they added a deadly three point specialist, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be at least as good as last year (47 wins). The point being, they don't need to jump at the first opportunity. They can wait if they prefer, and they'll still have a very solid product on the floor.

[Philosophers]

Towns is two or three years younger than Embiid, although it seems like he has missed his share of games in recent years, so I get your point.

I agree about Donovan Mitchell. He's clearly a talented scorer but probably less of a fit and less multi-dimensional.

It goes without saying that the Knicks should not feel compelled to do something here. Right now, they may not quite be championship material, but they're a good 45-50 win team that should be top five in the East and has already shown they're capable of winning at least one playoff series. Obviously, we all would like to see them do better than that, but this is now longer some inept franchise. They gave fans plenty of reasons to cheer and to be engaged into the early summer. They've lost nobody and they added a deadly three point specialist, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be at least as good as last year (47 wins). The point being, they don't need to jump at the first opportunity. They can wait if they prefer, and they'll still have a very solid product on the floor.

You raised a great point about Embiid's number of missing games each year.  That's a very serious concern.  Durability is important especially for a guy approaching 30.

What I don't like about this trade is that it goes against everything Leon Rose has done to date which is get the team younger, retain draft picks (and in fact accumulate them) and develop from within.  To clear out a lot of your starting roster plus give the 3 draft picks is a no go for me.  I'd be ok if they traded the three and retained the draft picks.

[umassgrad]

The Knicks will never win a championship with Randle on the team. Sorry, but he's very overrated. He doesn't do the little things like blocking out, he makes poor decisions most of the time and he's a poor finisher. Trade him for Dave Debusscher

[DaveBrown74]

Can't beat good teams when you shoot 53.8% from the line. That's just not going to cut. That was the story of this loss.

[DaveBrown74]

Julius Randle: 5-20 last night including 1-9 from three.

On the season so far he's shooting 27.1% from the field. 22.5% from three.

This guy is absolutely killing us and is the primary reason we're 2-4 right now to start the season out.

I wish they had done this trade for Embiid. None of the guys involved were guys who really add a huge amount. Mitchell Robinson is my favorite of them but if you're getting Embiid then losing him isn't that big of a deal. Plus Hartenstein is solid anyway.

Frustrating to watch. I know they'll get better but Randle is just painful to watch. Brick after brick after brick.

[madbadger]

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1540144869443866624?s=61&t=8pY1fIic9mTDjk4JVJPt9w

To get out from under another really stupid contract Rose offered, the Knicks had to trade the rights to Jalen Duran who is quickly turning into everything we hoped Robinson would be. Thankfully Rose made the astute move of locking up a guy who can't make it through a season without missing significant playing time due to injury.

[DaveBrown74]

Haven't posted here in a couple weeks.

I'm feeling reasonably good about where the Knicks are right now. Their record isn't fantastic, but it's not terrible either, particularly considering they've already played the Celts twice and the Bucks once. We know they're not better than those teams, and they're 6-2 in their other games besides those three.

They did start looking pretty bad with their shooting in the first three or four games, but that has gotten a lot better recently. They also have the third best point differential in the East, which is pretty solid.

I watched some of the game last night and was generally liking what I saw. The Hawks tend to always play us tough, and I just thought it was a good road win for us, especially considering we have been without Barrett.

Overall I think we all know what the Knicks are. They're a solid, respectable, competitive team that should be good for something between 45 and 50 wins and should be able to have a solid shot of winning at least one playoff series. Meanwhile they have plenty of assets and are not particularly old, so they can certainly make a move to get a top player if and when they think the time is right.

Can they be better than last year with what they have right now? Probably not much better, although one thing I really thought they were missing last year was a reliable three point man, and now they have that with DiVincenzo. So let's see.

Overall not an amazing start as they're only 6-5, but when I look at everything I feel pretty good about where they are right now.

[umassgrad]

The Knicks are not championship contenders but they play hard and are fun to watch. I can't stand watching the Giants and Yankees these days but I try to never miss a Knicks game. Thank you to the Knicks organization for providing a quality product to enjoy this winter. I just wish game tickets were not so expensive.