Time for a serious, no-spin conversation about Daniel Jones

[MightyGiants]

I am not absolving Jones cause you are right he missed guys yesterday. But this happens quite frequently in the NFL. I watched Herbert one game miss 4 wide open guys for TDs and he checked it down. It does happen. The problem with Jones is that it is magnified because our offense is so bad.

That is why you need stats.  Even really good QBs miss open receivers.  So you need some way of comparing rates that QBs are missing open receivers

[True Blue]

Every QB misses open receivers.  Without stats, it's hard to know if and how much of a problem it is

missing a wide open tight end for an easy TD, is that an issue yes or no?

[T200]

I am not absolving Jones cause you are right he missed guys yesterday. But this happens quite frequently in the NFL. I watched Herbert one game miss 4 wide open guys for TDs and he checked it down. It does happen. The problem with Jones is that it is magnified because our offense is so bad.

Every QB misses open receivers.  Without stats, it's hard to know if and how much of a problem it is

Herbert is not the Giants QB. I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do for his team. I bleed BLUE.

It's a problem for Jones and the Giants. I don't need to see numbers. I watch the games. Again, he had Waller WIDE OPEN for a TD and instead, threw a pick-6. 14-point swing. Statistics will tell you it was ONLY ONE play. Screw statistics. I know what I saw and the numbers are not going to minimize the impact. Not having it. That smoke needs to be blown up someone else's ass.

[True Blue]

Something that I was thinking about and I wonder if it has some validity to it...

Should Jones just concentrate on specific targets and basically force the ball to them? Lets be honest. Guys like Slayton, Campbell and Hodgins are nothing more than replaceable players. However Waller does have mismatch advantages, and Robinson has looked good when healthy. Instead of reading a defense and looking at the replaceable players - should his first read always be Waller or Robinson and if its not there -then go to the others?

The reason I'm saying this is Jones struggles with progressions at times, so that is taken away from him. And for as great as guys like Mahomes and Allen are - you know darn well theyre looking for Kelce and Diggs first then adjusting.

I just dont understand how a guy like Campbell is ever your first read. Now if there are 3 guys on a guy thats different, but maybe forcing it to your play makers will take less pressure off of him.

Essentially, he is already doing this

[JT39]

Herbert is not the Giants QB. I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do for his team. I bleed BLUE.

It's a problem for Jones and the Giants. I don't need to see numbers. I watch the games. Again, he had Waller WIDE OPEN for a TD and instead, threw a pick-6. 14-point swing. Statistics will tell you it was ONLY ONE play. Screw statistics. I know what I saw and the numbers are not going to minimize the impact. Not having it. That smoke needs to be blown up someone else's ass.

The Waller play is egregious. You wont get an argument from me on that one. That is basically reading coverage or even looking for your best player in the red zone.

However, while scrambling - he has to go through progressions much quicker, so yes WRs tend to not be seen. He missed Robinson because he was probably looking for something shorter (maybe a crosser). It doesnt absolve him, believe me. I am just trying to give some perspective on why he did.

The Waller play? All Jones fault and inexcusable.

[JT39]

Essentially, he is already doing this

Hes not though. Waller had 1 target through 3 quarters. Targeting bad players is not what I meant.

[Rambo89]

Something that I was thinking about and I wonder if it has some validity to it...

Should Jones just concentrate on specific targets and basically force the ball to them? Lets be honest. Guys like Slayton, Campbell and Hodgins are nothing more than replaceable players. However Waller does have mismatch advantages, and Robinson has looked good when healthy. Instead of reading a defense and looking at the replaceable players - should his first read always be Waller or Robinson and if its not there -then go to the others?

The reason I'm saying this is Jones struggles with progressions at times, so that is taken away from him. And for as great as guys like Mahomes and Allen are - you know darn well theyre looking for Kelce and Diggs first then adjusting.

I just dont understand how a guy like Campbell is ever your first read. Now if there are 3 guys on a guy thats different, but maybe forcing it to your play makers will take less pressure off of him.

He does this on a regular basis looking onto one receiver and not seeing the rest of the field.  Doing this will only feed more into his bad habits.

I am not absolving Jones cause you are right he missed guys yesterday. But this happens quite frequently in the NFL. I watched Herbert one game miss 4 wide open guys for TDs and he checked it down. It does happen. The problem with Jones is that it is magnified because our offense is so bad.

A guy like Herbert may miss guys who are wide open but he will make up for it with the other plays he makes with his arm downfield.  Jones doesn't.

The Waller play is egregious. You wont get an argument from me on that one. That is basically reading coverage or even looking for your best player in the red zone.

However, while scrambling - he has to go through progressions much quicker, so yes WRs tend to not be seen. He missed Robinson because he was probably looking for something shorter (maybe a crosser). It doesnt absolve him, believe me. I am just trying to give some perspective on why he did.

The Waller play? All Jones fault and inexcusable.

And that's his biggest problem, he's always looking for something shorter to check down too and rarely ever looks or goes downfield.  That was why he missed Robinson and why he missed Waller.

[MightyGiants]

Herbert is not the Giants QB. I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do for his team. I bleed BLUE.

It's a problem for Jones and the Giants. I don't need to see numbers. I watch the games. Again, he had Waller WIDE OPEN for a TD and instead, threw a pick-6. 14-point swing. Statistics will tell you it was ONLY ONE play. Screw statistics. I know what I saw and the numbers are not going to minimize the impact. Not having it. That smoke needs to be blown up someone else's ass.

You are certainly entitled to your approach.  I prefer one that is more measured.  I think Jones had a very bad game.  Still, this team is terrible which requires Jones to be perfect. Every mistake is magnified on this team.  So that's why I prefer to see some numbers that would allow for a fact-based evaluation.

[H-Town G-Fan]

Herbert is not the Giants QB. I couldn't care less what he does or doesn't do for his team. I bleed BLUE.

It's a problem for Jones and the Giants. I don't need to see numbers. I watch the games. Again, he had Waller WIDE OPEN for a TD and instead, threw a pick-6. 14-point swing. Statistics will tell you it was ONLY ONE play. Screw statistics. I know what I saw and the numbers are not going to minimize the impact. Not having it. That smoke needs to be blown up someone else's ass.

Statistics wouldn't tell you it's a meaningless one play. They would tell you the EPA of going from a short Goal-to-Go situation to a score for the other team is very low (in fact it's negative). And it's (at least partially) why DJ's QBR last night was 22.0 (below his now-season average of 37.0, which ranks 27th in the NFL).

[T200]

The Waller play is egregious. You wont get an argument from me on that one. That is basically reading coverage or even looking for your best player in the red zone.

However, while scrambling - he has to go through progressions much quicker, so yes WRs tend to not be seen. He missed Robinson because he was probably looking for something shorter (maybe a crosser). It doesnt absolve him, believe me. I am just trying to give some perspective on why he did.

The Waller play? All Jones fault and inexcusable.

First, my responses are to the request for statistics on missed open receivers. Stats aren't needed to show the severity of a missed open receiver. Additionally, not all missed open receiver opportunities are equal. Missing Robinson brought up a 4th down. Missing Waller ended in a 14-point swing. But statistically, he missed two open receivers. Jones was 27/34 with 2 missed open receivers, it doesn't look that bad, right?

Second, he ALWAYS looks for something shorter.

[Rambo89]

You are certainly entitled to your approach.  I prefer one that is more measured.  I think Jones had a very bad game.  Still, this team is terrible which requires Jones to be perfect. Every mistake is magnified on this team.  So that's why I prefer to see some numbers that would allow for a fact-based evaluation.

And the team is also required to be perfect for Jones to be productive by propping him up.

[JT39]

Rambo,

you are making my point for me. You're telling me he's locked into one guy and forcing it to them. Why is he locking into a guy like Campbell or Slayton who neither are very good. Wouldnt you rather him forcing it to them? Or guys like Robinson or Waller who can actually exploit the defense?

[B1GBLUE]

In the Game thread there were questions as to whether receivers were open downfield and to point out which plays where they were.  Well here is one in addition to the pick 6.

https://twitter.com/nickfalato/status/1709237407844094408?s=61

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Yeah. thats bad. even the guy leaking out to the flat was borderline first down. this is horrible qb play.

[MightyGiants]

And the team is also required to be perfect for Jones to be productive by propping him up.

The team was far from perfect in the second half of the AZ game, but it didn't stop DJ from a historic comeback.

[JT39]

And the team is also required to be perfect for Jones to be productive by propping him up.

We can argue that Jones needs to be perfect in order for us to win too. It works both ways. The defense and running game havent stepped up either.