Time for a serious, no-spin conversation about Daniel Jones

[B1GBLUE]

Most of the sacks came after the pick 6 when the game was over.  In the first half the line play was good enough to make plays downfield.

If Jones is broken then it's time to move on.  There's no use in holding onto a broken QB while you're building out the rest of the roster.

thats a good way of putting it. he doesnt suck. he's broken. there is a difference. the giants should be ashamed of themselves for letting this ruin the last half of eli's career, and the entirety of jones career. its sickening.

[T200]

You wanna know the sad state of our team right now? Before last night - a lot of venom was on Thibs and his play. And right now, he is one of our better players. He has 3 of our 4 sacks. And came the closest to forcing a turnover.

I'm still not happy with Thibs. Yay, he got two sacks against backups. Seattle got ELEVEN!!! Thibs should have had 5!!

[B1GBLUE]

You wanna know the sad state of our team right now? Before last night - a lot of venom was on Thibs and his play. And right now, he is one of our better players. He has 3 of our 4 sacks. And came the closest to forcing a turnover.

at least hes trending in the right direction. he FINALLY tried an inside move and look at that, results.

[andrew_nyGiants]

Last year this coaching staff did a great job of holding DJ's hand and building his confidence.

IMHO he was seeing ghosts before they arrived and he was nearing the end of his career as a starter as a result.

Then the winning got in the way of the building for the coaching staff and IMO they believed that they had a solid OL Coach (they don't), the ST Coach is good enough (he isn't), and DJ (particularly after the big contract) was cured. He's NOT!

By the 2nd half the ghosts returned, you could see the panic on Daboll's face and the fear in DJ's eyes. NOT the fear of getting hit (he's already proven he's a physically tough kid) but the fear of letting everyone down.

I hate to say this because I don't want it to be true, but I think we all need to adjust our expectations because last night was the beginning of the end of DJ's career as a starter for the NYG.

It may be the end for Daboll as well if he doesn't smarten up and get rid of Johnson and McGaughey.

That's my .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[kingm56]

The reality of the situation is that Jones is our starter for this year AND next year.  The cap implications of getting rid of him until after the 2024 season would set this team back even further.  Wherever the Giants end up drafting, they should be picking offensive linemen early and often and give Jones 2024 as his prove it year.

I don't believe that's accurate at all.  The rookie salary cap ensures the pay will be the same, whether the Giants select a QB or RG...it doesn't matter.  Thus, the cap implications are the same; also, drafting a QB doesn't mean they'll cut DJ. Instead, it creates competition and allows the new QB to be incorporated slowly.  Next year the QB class is the deepest in recent history and the Giants would be wise to take advantage of the situation.  I certainly wouldn't advocate for drafting a 4th OL in 5 years and hoping a QB making his 70th+ start becomes something he's never been, at any level.  I just don't see how anyone could advocate for more of the same...

[DaveBrown74]

I don't believe that's accurate at all.  The rookie salary cap ensures the pay will be the same, whether the Giants select a QB or RG...it doesn't matter.  Thus, the cap implications are the same; also, drafting a QB doesn't mean they'll cut DJ. Instead, it creates competition and allows the new QB to be incorporated slowly.  Next year the QB class is the deepest in recent history and the Giants would be wise to take advantage of the situation.  I certainly wouldn't advocate for drafting a 4th OL in 5 years and hoping a QB making his 70th+ start becomes something he's never been, at any level.  I just don't see how anyone could advocate for more of the same...

Precisely, King.

Drafting a QB creates competition at the position, which DJ has never had. And if DJ suddenly plays extremely well next year and we have a top rookie QB prospect on the roster, that's hardly a huge problem. Most teams don't have one very valuable QB. Having two is a great situation to be in, not a bad one. So Giants fans who don't want to draft a QB because they still believe DJ is really good at his core are looking at it in an overly binary way, in my opinion.

[True Blue]

https://www.nfl.com/news/head-coach-brian-daboll-on-giants-latest-blowout-loss-i-d-be-upset-too-if-i-was-

For the third time in four games, the New York Giants were lambasted by a superior opponent on national television.

Monday night's 24-3 shellacking at the hands of the Seattle Seahawks at MetLife Stadium was a cacophony of Big Blue sadness. The offense gave up 11 sacks, and Daniel Jones turned it over thrice. The defense whiffed on crucial tackles. The special teams earned a laughable six penalties.

In four games, the Giants have played two solid quarters. The other 14 have been abysmal. New York has been outscored 77-9 in first halves this season with zero touchdowns. In two home games -- both in primetime -- Giants fans have watched their club get outscored 64-3.

"I'd be upset too if I was a fan," head coach Brian Daboll said after the game, via the official transcript. "There's a lot of things we've got to do better, and that's what we'll try to do."

Oh, they're upset, Brian.

It's not just that the losses mount. It's the unhinged, deplorable nature of said defeats that have Giants fans waking up in a brew of rage, sadness, and bewilderment.

The Giants paid Jones $40 million annually and have seen a negative return thus far. It's fair to point out that the blocking has been atrocious and that few could navigate having to make plays with .025 seconds to think. Yet, even when Jones did have time, he rarely hit his target, fled from some clean pockets out of fear anticipation, and his three turnovers were of the ghastly variety.

"I mean obviously I didn't play well enough," Jones said. "It was unacceptable and I let the team down, so I've got to fix it. I've got to work hard to get it right and I'm going to do that."

$40 million quarterbacks are supposed to raise the boats around them, not sink alongside the dead weight.[/u] Through four weeks, out of 34 qualified QBs in the NFL, Jones ranks 26th in pass yards per game (191.3), 33rd in passer rating (69.7), 33rd in times sacked (22), and 34th in TD-INT ratio (2-6).

Monday night's early fumble harkened back to Jones' early-career fumbling issues, and his pick-six, which killed any thought of a comeback, was a piss-poor decision and throw.

"My play wasn't good enough. I know that, and that's what I'm focused on," Jones reiterated.

[JT39]

I'm still not happy with Thibs. Yay, he got two sacks against backups. Seattle got ELEVEN!!! Thibs should have had 5!!

I am not stating he has been good. I think its an indication how bad everyone else has been....lol

[kartanoman]

Get rid of the head coach.
Get rid of the QB.
Draft a new QB.
Get a brand new OL.
Fire the OL coach.
Fire the Special Teams coach.

Screw it, Fire everybody!

Sounds like the same old, same old when you have injured players.

Oops, Fire Ronnie and his entire staff!

There, everyone feel better now?

While we're at it, 🔥 the damned Sardine Can and rebuild the old Giants Stadium in its original likeness.

Send Parcells through a time machine and have him come back 40 years younger. Belichick and the BBWC too! Throw in Simms and his old line and Mark Bavaro.

Now we have something, right?

Thank goodness Collingwood defeated Brisbane in an epic Grand Final over the weekend to claim the AFL Premiership. Last night's fiasco was an ambivalent exercise to me and I enjoyed Payton and Eli instead.

Ugly first quarter of the season, folks.

Peace!

[B1GBLUE]

Last year this coaching staff did a great job of holding DJ's hand and building his confidence.

IMHO he was seeing ghosts before they arrived and he was nearing the end of his career as a starter as a result.

Then the winning got in the way of the building for the coaching staff and IMO they believed that they had a solid OL Coach (they don't), the ST Coach is good enough (he isn't), and DJ (particularly after the big contract) was cured. He's NOT!

By the 2nd half the ghosts returned, you could see the panic on Daboll's face and the fear in DJ's eyes. NOT the fear of getting hit (he's already proven he's a physically tough kid) but the fear of letting everyone down.

I hate to say this because I don't want it to be true, but I think we all need to adjust our expectations because last night was the beginning of the end of DJ's career as a starter for the NYG.

It may be the end for Daboll as well if he doesn't smarten up and get rid of Johnson and McGaughey.

That's my .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think this is spot on. this is the end for jones. its not his fault, but it is what it is. we have destroyed another qb. truth be told, if we had any semblance of an oline for the last decade, eli might still be in there.

[Ed Vette]

Last year this coaching staff did a great job of holding DJ's hand and building his confidence.

IMHO he was seeing ghosts before they arrived and he was nearing the end of his career as a starter as a result.

Then the winning got in the way of the building for the coaching staff and IMO they believed that they had a solid OL Coach (they don't), the ST Coach is good enough (he isn't), and DJ (particularly after the big contract) was cured. He's NOT!

By the 2nd half the ghosts returned, you could see the panic on Daboll's face and the fear in DJ's eyes. NOT the fear of getting hit (he's already proven he's a physically tough kid) but the fear of letting everyone down.

I hate to say this because I don't want it to be true, but I think we all need to adjust our expectations because last night was the beginning of the end of DJ's career as a starter for the NYG.

It may be the end for Daboll as well if he doesn't smarten up and get rid of Johnson and McGaughey.

That's my .02


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Well said, Andrew. The winning got in the way.

[Rambo89]

The reality of the situation is that Jones is our starter for this year AND next year.  The cap implications of getting rid of him until after the 2024 season would set this team back even further.  Wherever the Giants end up drafting, they should be picking offensive linemen early and often and give Jones 2024 as his prove it year.

Then Daboll gets 2024 as well.  I am sorry Jones doesn't get a 4th Head Coach.  This is it for him with coaches.  If Daboll goes so does Jones.

[Jclayton92]

You either have a top 5-7 guy or you should be drafting one every year until you do.

[StompYouOT]

I don't see him as broken because I never thought he was good to begin with. Run? Yeah very good, but no defense respects him as a passer nor should they. Very easy to attack and make the line look incompetent. No conversation for 2024 should include DJ unless he's a backup or a top draft pick is behind him for a month.

If you support Jones then you support more games like last night, Dallas, the Philly playoff game. See it for what it is, he tries hard but is not a competent passer except for a few games against bad defenses

[Rambo89]

thats a good way of putting it. he doesnt suck. he's broken. there is a difference. the giants should be ashamed of themselves for letting this ruin the last half of eli's career, and the entirety of jones career. its sickening.

I just pointed it out after looking it up in another thread Eli Manning had a bad 2013 season but from 2014-2016 he was a consistent 4,000 yard 25+ TD QB.  It wasn't until 2017 when he was 36 that the decline in his play really showed and that was more to age than anything.