Best and worst supporting casts

[Gmo11]

If you believe the NFL's worst team for supporting their QB, just needed a QB to contend, then all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion.   I can't help but remember that the terrible protection contributed to all those injuries, they just weren't "bad luck"

He gets hurt every year though.  An almost competent QB snuck them into the playoffs the year before with a worse cast of characters than this one.  If they had gotten actually competent QB play it's not that far of a leap to suggest they would again make the playoffs. 

[Fletch]

Of the 4 teams in the conference championship, three (49ers, Ravens, Chiefs) all had good teams before acquiring their QB.  Only the Lions had a poor team when they acquired Goff (a QB who had already developed).


If you expand this out to the teams from last week.  3 (the Bucs, Packers, and Bills) had solid teams before acquiring their QB and only the Texans had a weak team before getting their QB (although they acquired talent and a good coach while acquiring their QB)

They all had good QBs from before! They went and made QB moves. The Packers ? They had first ballot hall of famer at QB who they would have gladly kept if they didn't get fed up with his wishy-washy attitude about retiring.

The 49ers had Jimmy G. who they traded for; took them to a SB; and went to get a starting job on another team. And they have not been back since. They also waited till the last pick of the draft to get their QB? They also brought in 2 others; one which was on a scrap heap the other they used 2 1 rnd picks for.

THe Ravens had Flacco who they already won a SB with, and recently came back from off his couch at age 37 or whatever to lead the Browns to a decent showing and get into the postseason at least. Lets see if the L Jackson led Ravens can duplicate what the Flacco led Ravens have done i,e, win a SB.

The Bucs? Yea they were just waiting for Tom Brady to finally hand it up so they could find Baker Mayfield on his 3rd team.

It sounds to me like 0% of the teams you are citing were good teams that built their teams up first to get "their" QB. With the exception of Goff, who was clear cut a QB-led rebuild-- all the others were already good teams WITH GOOD QBs already there. That is a far cry from a 5 win team running it back again with an over-paid back-up QB in hopes of building something together.

[Bob In PA]

Obviously I disagree with your interpretation.

The major problem with this team since Eli got old is the QB position. Every other role has been turned over multiple times to no effect.

Either way, the supporting cast was extremely weak when they invested first round picks in Thibs, Neal, and Banks, second round picks in Robinson and JMS, and third round picks in Ezeudu, Flott, and Hyatt. There is no reason to believe, outside of blind faith, that if the Schoen regime continues to draft the way it has, that the supporting cast will improve to a championship or near championship level... which is the entire point of all of this.

Although, in the case of the Giants, perhaps winning a championship isn't the primary goal. I was listening to a podcast the other day, I think it was Lombardi, and he was talking about how Bill Walsh used to say he was only competing with about 6 other teams for championships. According to Lombardi, the other teams are primarily focused on keeping their jobs rather than building a program.

The Giants primary issues are first bad culture which allows for low expectations and excuse making. Second, poor QB play. And third, lack of talent and player development.

This is an organization that spins its wheels so consistently, they cut Kevin Zeitler so they could sign Kyle Rudolph.

Watch how quickly things change if they're able to get Jayden Daniels. The players they do have are going to look so much better.

Doc: You make a very good argument for drafting a QB.

I was not arguing for or against you but pointing out that the original post has little to do with your issue.

I do get what you're saying, but disagree because our team has trouble establishing the running game, AND our OL does not give ANY of our QB's enough time to throw the ball, AND our receivers are not consistently open. 

Those three items are hallmarks of a bad team in today's NFL.

Your best argument, IMO, is that when you are drafting high, it's wise to take a player most teams would take if they were picking that high.

Bob

[Bob In PA]

Of the 4 teams in the conference championship, three (49ers, Ravens, Chiefs) all had good teams before acquiring their QB.  Only the Lions had a poor team when they acquired Goff (a QB who had already developed).

Rich: IMO this point is absolutely true and vital to Schoen's next moves. 

Unfortunately, those who don't want to be convinced can't be convinced.

I do not think drafting a QB is going to make the offensive line block better for both the run and the pass, nor is it going to get the receivers open more consistently, nor is it going to help them catch the ball.

Bob

[Fletch]

It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks.

Flacco was there for years , since he was a rookie. They won a SB with him. He played till he had a season ending injury.

The Bills had Tyrod Taylor barely a .500 team with him at QB for 3 seasons. That is building first? Sounds like they got a QB first and built later.

[MightyGiants]

It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks.

Fletch, in your case, comments like this one remind me of how you said you admired Aaron Rodgers more because he lied and slandered another person.  That sort of drove home to me what your values are and so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by these intellectually dishonest comments.

I can't help but notice you don't see people being accused of being Jones haters, but it is not uncommon that we see some variation of the "Jones lover" attack.  I guess one side values intellectual honesty and critical thinking more than the other side.

[Bob In PA]

It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks.

Fletch: Giving a big contract to Jones was a statement by Schoen.

My interpretation is Schoen believes Daniel Jones is good enough to win if he gets some help.

"Help" is not a last-place OL, nor the so-so WR corps all three QB's have to work with on a daily basis. 

I think it's more likely a QB already on the team (or a free agent acquired in the off-season) will take Jones' job than the likelihood that Schoen will pic a QB (in the first round). 

The only exception, IMO, is... if a QB he would have taken if he had the number-one over-all pick is still there when it's his turn, he knows he'd be a damn fool not to take him (and so he will).

Bob

[Fletch]

Fletch, in your case, comments like this one remind me of how you said you admired Aaron Rodgers more because he lied and slandered another person.  That sort of drove home to me what your values are and so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by these intellectually dishonest comments.

I can't help but notice you don't see people being accused of being Jones haters, but it is not uncommon that we see some variation of the "Jones lover" attack.  I guess one side values intellectual honesty and critical thinking more than the other side.

I said I admired Rodgers more....? That was not my intention if I did. Not to rehash this again but, I thought A Rodgers joke was funny. And I do not care for this holier-than-thou BS coming from a comedian guy who reminds me of every immature frat guy from college.

If that were someone saying that about you, you would reprimand them for a personal attack. You do not think that is a little hypocritical.?

[DaveBrown74]

My interpretation is Schoen believes Daniel Jones is good enough to win if he gets some help.

Bob,

Does Schoen still believe that? Or did he believe it at the time?

Or did he sign Jones to as flexible a contract as he could get away with because he didn't really have a lot of other options?

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

Does Schoen still believe that? Or did he believe it at the time?

Or did he sign Jones to as flexible a contract as he could get away with because he didn't really have a lot of other options?

DB: That's the "$64,000 Question" (as they used to say back in the stone age).

Regardless of whether the owner(s) got involved in the Jones decision, my guess is Schoen now views that issue as SETTLED and all of his future actions will be based on treating it as the correct decision.

We don't know the answers to each of your questions (all good points) but I think it's safe to assume Schoen will work with the "Jones is our guy" point of view in making all subsequent decisions (unless he's planning to commit GM hara-kiri).

Bob

[Giant Obsession]

A sharp unencumbered GM could take that #6 pick and trade it twice moving down.  We need lots mo players.  And talent evaluators.

[Doc16LT56]

Schoen should take a lesson from the former Jets GM who passed on drafting Pat Mahomes because he overrated his in house QB (Hackenberg) and assumed he could easily draft a QB the following year if things didn't work out (Darnold). It didn't matter that the player the Jets drafted was an All Pro talent and foundational piece at the time (Jamal Adams).

It's very difficult to come back from passing on a great QB when you don't have one. I don't know if Schoen will have the opportunity to draft a great QB this year, but if he does and chooses not to, that decision will be permanently attached to him.

[Jclayton92]

To no one's surprise.

And it's why drafting a QB this year would be an absolute waste. The pool is just not that talented beyond the top 2, and they'd be playing alongside the worst supporting cast in the league.

Spend the next 2 years righting the ship, then be in a position to compete in 2026.

So you don't think us having the worst Qb play in the NFL had no bearing on the supporting cast?

A skill team of Barkley, Waller, Slayton, Hyatt, and Robinson is not bad and actually pretty good. The one getting them the ball is the problem. Hence everyone wanting us to get that Qb you think would be a waste.

[Jclayton92]

Why continue building a team and losing when you can jump start your franchise with a franchise qb on a cheap deal. We have talent. Guess we'll just go a few more seasons with Slayton wandering around open deep for half the season.

In this Era of football the only thing that matters is the Qb, so I just don't understand the hesitancy to draft one after the Sh Show we saw all this season and frankly since Eli got old like @Doc16LT56 said.

[DaveBrown74]

Schoen should take a lesson from the former Jets GM who passed on drafting Pat Mahomes because he overrated his in house QB (Hackenberg) and assumed he could easily draft a QB the following year if things didn't work out (Darnold). It didn't matter that the player the Jets drafted was an All Pro talent and foundational piece at the time (Jamal Adams).

It's very difficult to come back from passing on a great QB when you don't have one. I don't know if Schoen will have the opportunity to draft a great QB this year, but if he does and chooses not to, that decision will be permanently attached to him.

Good exemplary point, Doc.

Those who are comfortable passing on an opportunity to draft a QB the team rates very highly because they want to build up other areas of the team first seem to under-appreciate the rarity of having that opportunity.