JJ McCarthy (could he be the Giants target in round one)?

[Just_jimmy]

I've been vocal that JJ is the guy I want.

He wins. He's won. He run an NFL offence. Yes there's some questions but he's a far better prospect than Jones was.

Take him at 6 and get our QB. I'd far rather roll that dice and miss but have a chance of success, than continue to mess around pretending Jones will take us anywhere.

6 is never too high if you genuinely believe in a QB.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[DaveBrown74]

Second, and you and I are over the top Giants fans, when did we ever think that Jones can make all the throws?   

I didn't, but I heard that all the time about him, and I have heard the same comment made about McCarthy.

Anytime someone says that about a QB, it feels like a conciliatory acknowledgement that there are a lot of other issues "but at least he can make throws that an NFL QB should be able to make." I have never considered that to be much of a compliment for an NFL QB. High school or even college maybe, but not a pro.

Maybe McCarthy will end up being very good. I acknowledge it's fully possible. But do I want to use a high first round pick on a guy who was basically used as a game manager in the biggest games of his college career? Not really. A day two pick if we really like him? Sure. But not first round for me, much less 6th overall. If they take him in the first round and he ends up being a true franchise QB, then I'll be very happily proven wrong.

[Brooklyn Dave]

Is McCarthy a franchise QB? I have no idea, maybe he is and maybe he is not, but this team has so many holes to fill that it needs someone who will be making a difference next year with the number 6 pick.

[MightyGiants]

I agree that JJ had a considerably more impressive college career than DJ, but I would struggle to use a first round pick on a QB who in college was gameplanned around and not really used in a feature way in big games. Obviously Michigan's plan worked, as they were the best team in the country, and I'm not saying McCarthy had nothing to do with that because he did, but I would still be very leery about drafting him anywhere near the very top of the draft.

When I hear phrases like "he did everything the coaches asked of him" and "he can make all the throws", that's when I'm reminded of DJ.

[MightyGiants]

I didn't, but I heard that all the time about him, and I have heard the same comment made about McCarthy.

Anytime someone says that about a QB, it feels like a conciliatory acknowledgement that there are a lot of other issues "but at least he can make throws that an NFL QB should be able to make." I have never considered that to be much of a compliment for an NFL QB. High school or even college maybe, but not a pro.

Maybe McCarthy will end up being very good. I acknowledge it's fully possible. But do I want to use a high first round pick on a guy who was basically used as a game manager in the biggest games of his college career? Not really. A day two pick if we really like him? Sure. But not first round for me, much less 6th overall. If they take him in the first round and he ends up being a true franchise QB, then I'll be very happily proven wrong.

JJ McCarthy was one of the most efficient and productive (on a per pass basis) in college football last year.


7th in passer rating in all of college ball

10th PFF grade

3rd in QBR

[Gman329]

Please, God, NO!  I don't want him at 6, I don't want him at 106!  I watched a lot of Michigan football and never came away from a game thinking JJ was the reason they won.  I want a QB but I'll stick with DJ before taking a flyer on JJ.

[MightyGiants]

[MightyGiants]

The thing to appreciate about JJ is his age.  The guy started as a true freshman (a good sign), and he is only 20 (as opposed to 24).  I came across this excellent chart of how college QBs improve over time


https://x.com/DevyEusuf/status/1753064664878211105?s=20

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/CFBNumbers/status/1752048230781607956?s=20

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/NFL_DF/status/1750225768888545485?s=20

https://x.com/NFL_DF/status/1750225885108588574?s=20

https://x.com/NFL_DF/status/1750225999206170637?s=20

[uconnjack8]

The fact that Michigan could just run over their opponents doesnt mean McCarthy isn't worth a high draft pick.

From what I saw, I really can't tell.  He didn't do anything special in the games I watched,  but wasn't asked or forced to. 

[Philosophers]

Agreed.  I think that's exactly what they'd be doing if they take JJ:  buying a lottery ticket and hoping to get lucky.  And if you're going to do that, I'd rather not do that in the top 10.  If they can collect a bunch of other picks to supplement the lottery ticket in case it fails then fine.  But we JUST saw what happens when you take a QB way too high simply because you fell in full bloom love after the senior bowl despite being mostly pedestrian in his college career. 

If they evaluate him at the same level of guys like Maye/Daniels then fine, I guess, but they'd be about the only people in the football watching world that does that.  And that would be a scary proposition for me because they haven't exactly been one of the best scouting organizations around.  When the Ravens evaluate a guy differently than everybody else I'm more inclined to trust their judgement.  There's nothing in recent history to suggest the Giants can properly scout much of anybody so if everybody else says late 1st/Early 2nd and the Giants say "#6 overall" I'd be terrified.  And after they just did the exact same thing with Jones/Gettleman it would be even more unsettling.

Players produce in the NFL who have less than ideal stats in college.

Second, as a fan it's easier to see college stats yet not see diva behavior from a player.  That can come out later.

[DaveBrown74]

Bottom line for me in a nutshell:

He was clearly a good to very good college QB and has some nice tools. With that said, he never popped off the screen for me in big games the way I'd want a top 10 pick to do. Obviously I'm not a professional scout, but I have watched college and pro ball consistently for over 40 years now so I do have some degree of trust in my eyes.

I would not advocate taking him sixth overall under any circumstances, personally. And I don't expect him to last until 39. If he is still on the board past the 25/28 range and the Giants moved up to get him, I could live with that. What I don't want to see them do is let their desperate need for a good QB push them into overrating McCarthy or any other QB prospect this year. That is the Gettleman approach, and I really do not want to go back to that.

[MightyGiants]

December 1, 2023

"I love McCarthy," one veteran NFL executive said. "He may not have enough juice to get him over Williams, but there is something about J.J."

...

"Would have loved to see him throw more than eight (expletive) times," one scout who attended the game texted as he left the stadium.

...

"That's Harbaugh," one NFL general manager replied. "He's going to do what he does. I give that kid credit. A lot of kids crumble there."

...

"The thing I liked, he knew there were a ton of scouts there and he threw it eight times," he said. "Yet after the game, J.J. was celebrating. He didn't give a (hoot). You saw him running all over. Tells me loud and clear he is a team guy."

...

"He's definitely athletic enough in the pocket," said a national scout with Michigan in his territory. "He's got all the necessary arm talent. He's accurate enough. I like his confidence. There's that fine line of taking risks and not being stupid, and usually he's at that line. For whatever reason, there's been a few games this year he's been crossing that line.

"He's a legit first-round contender based on what I've seen. I'm optimistic about what he can be. I don't have a strong conviction at this point."

...

that leads into another Harbaugh-related topic of whether Michigan's system better equips the quarterback for the NFL based on what he's asked to do.

"Yes," said a general manager who has seen McCarthy play this season. "Because he's running a more pro-style attack. He is in a different offense than all these other guys getting all of the stats.

"Now, he's in shotgun a lot, too, but he'll get under center. You can see him work through progressions. He still needs some work at that. He's accurate but misses throws like they all do. But it's more of a pro style with what they're doing with Harbaugh. They run the hell out of it, which helps the quarterback with the play action. He's an interesting guy."

...

"Unbelievable mind," one high-level evaluator said. "Can't make any judgment on him until they play (more) high-level teams."


https://www.chicagotribune.com/2023/12/01/nfl-evaluators-praise-jj-mccarthys-unbelievable-mind-would-the-chicago-bears-target-the-michigan-qb-and-local-product/

[Philosophers]

All I know is Harbaugh wanted to win games pounding a defense with good rushing and controlling the clock and having a suffocating defense.  That does not mean he is not a very good QB.  I'm not saying he is or is not but dont take Harbaugh's preferred style as an indictment of JJ.