JJ McCarthy (could he be the Giants target in round one)?

[T200]

Roster development is relative. You can win with either or neither, it all depends on the how the rest of the team is built.

I agree about roster development.

But give me the top 3 QB over the top 3 WR. If a defense doubles or otherwise neutralizes the top WR, the QB has other options. If the QB is having an off day, there's very little the top WR is going to be able to do to get that offense going.

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/GetUpESPN/status/1772618378437337589?s=20

[Philosophers]

Makes complete sense what he said.  After Rosen failure, now punt on Murray.  Not a good look for a team

[katkavage]

I agree about roster development.

But give me the top 3 QB over the top 3 WR. If a defense doubles or otherwise neutralizes the top WR, the QB has other options. If the QB is having an off day, there's very little the top WR is going to be able to do to get that offense going.

Top receivers are nice to have. The Giants can draft one of the greats. But that player will have little impact without a star QB or even a franchise QB to throw to them. Makes sense for the Chargers to draft one. Even Arizona. But not the Giants at the expense of a QB.

[Jclayton92]

If JJ is there I think the Giants have to grab him without hesitation. The product on the field has to get better and Daniel Jones is incapable of that at this point.

[Philosophers]

If JJ is there I think the Giants have to grab him without hesitation. The product on the field has to get better and Daniel Jones is incapable of that at this point.

If he is there I will be shocked if they don't draft him.

I think he will be gone prior to that.

[kingm56]

Joe/Jess,

Fundamentally, I agree with both of you; however, when it comes to JJ, I just don't know. I'd rather gamble on a prospect like Nix in the second round vice spend my top pick on JJ; executing this COA, could net us a top-tier QB and WR.  Even if Nix is flop, you could literally draft QB again the following seasons.

If the Giants do draft JJ, I will still be happy as the promise of JJ represents a far better prospect than enduring another offensively inept/boring season under DJ.  In short, we know the latter's capability; I'd rather gamble on a QB to afford the Giants an opportunity to truly alter their trajectory.   

[Jclayton92]

Joe/Jess,

Fundamentally, I agree with both of you; however, when it comes to JJ, I just don't know. I'd rather gamble on a prospect like Nix in the second round vice spend my top pick on JJ; executing this COA, could net us a top-tier QB and WR.  Even if Nix is flop, you could literally draft QB again the following seasons.

If the Giants do draft JJ, I will still be happy as the promise of JJ represents a far better prospect than enduring another offensively inept/boring season under DJ.  In short, we know the latter's capability; I'd rather gamble on a QB to afford the Giants an opportunity to truly alter their trajectory.   

I've just watched a ton of Penix, McCarthy, and Nix tape and the difference between McCarthy and the other two is that big that I think it's worth it.

[Philosophers]

Joe/Jess,

Fundamentally, I agree with both of you; however, when it comes to JJ, I just don't know. I'd rather gamble on a prospect like Nix in the second round vice spend my top pick on JJ; executing this COA, could net us a top-tier QB and WR.  Even if Nix is flop, you could literally draft QB again the following seasons.

If the Giants do draft JJ, I will still be happy as the promise of JJ represents a far better prospect than enduring another offensively inept/boring season under DJ.  In short, we know the latter's capability; I'd rather gamble on a QB to afford the Giants an opportunity to truly alter their trajectory.   

I totally see where you are coming from.  Two things though enter my mind.  First how much of a real drop off would there be with a 2nd round WR prospect given such a deep class?  Second, we have not really discussed the leap Hyatt and maybe Robinson may take next season.  Hyatt was good.  They did not throw it to him enough.

[MightyGiants]

Here is McGinn's initial comments on JJ McCarthy


J.J. McCarthy, Michigan (6-2 ½, 219): Tenth in Heisman voting. Voted MVP by his teammates in mid-December before two playoff victories raised his career mark to 27-1. "He's a good player," one scout said. "I just don't know he's ever going to be any more than he is right now. Somebody said (Jim) Harbaugh loves him because he's basically Harbaugh. He's f—king gritty, strong defense, strong running game. Bo Nix is significantly better, and I like (Spencer) Rattler better than both of them." Did throw during combine drills but didn't run or test. "I like him as a short-to-intermediate passer," a second scout said. "He's smart. He'll distribute the ball. But I don't see him as a guy who will win a game." Saw limited duty as a freshman behind Cade McNamara before claiming the job in Game 2 of 2022. "I like J.J. but are you really going to take this guy in the first round?" a third scout said. "A guy that throws 15 times a game? They just keep him out of the way and they run the ball and play D. I just don't think he's a real talented guy. He's tough as hell. He's a winner and all that, but as far as quarterback talent and vision ... He's a one-read, simple read guy. Half-field. Even with that his accuracy is a little bit off. He's a good enough athlete but nothing where you're saying this guy's dynamic. Throws everything hard. I just don't see a very talented dude." His 9-inch hands were the smallest of the 13 quarterbacks measured at the combine. "I just think that he's a guy," a fourth scout said. "More of a game manager. Their game is all play-action. Teams (crowded) the box most of the time. He is good outside the pocket. The receivers run around and come back to him. Holds the ball. Inconsistent mechanics. Of the six games I watched he had seven tipped balls. I questioned his touch. Michigan's coaching was so good. They knew what every one of their players could and could not do ... Thinking back, he's kind of like his coach. Jim moved around. He wasn't a great passer but he found ways to win. McCarthy is more physically gifted than Harbaugh but it's the same mentality. You're not going to make mistakes. Play outside the pocket."

[kingm56]

I totally see where you are coming from.  Two things though enter my mind.  First how much of a real drop off would there be with a 2nd round WR prospect given such a deep class?  Second, we have not really discussed the leap Hyatt and maybe Robinson may take next season.  Hyatt was good.  They did not throw it to him enough.

That's very fair perspective. 

[Philosophers]

I just read that Caleb has painted his nails pink and is walking around with a pink mobile phone.  I have nothing against color choices but folks will rush to judgment.  In no way does this help him and frankly folks may question his judgment to do something which may be misinterpreted.  Some here will say, "it doesn't matter."  Then it will.

Message to JJ.  Continue being you.

[DaveBrown74]

I just read that Caleb has painted his nails pink and is walking around with a pink mobile phone.  I have nothing against color choices but folks will rush to judgment.  In no way does this help him and frankly folks may question his judgment to do something which may be misinterpreted.  Some here will say, "it doesn't matter."  Then it will.

Message to JJ.  Continue being you.

I can see why this would rub many NFL fans the wrong way, and I understand why, but for me it's still all about what the player does on the field and how he treats and interacts with his teammates. The rest is noise to me. If those two overriding factors are strong, then I don't care how he dresses, what he does with his hair, or even if he paints his nails, personally.

Dennis Rodman was doing stuff like this (and way, way more by the way) several decades ago, and he was an absolutely pivotal part of two different championship winning NBA franchises. The Celtics are the best or second best team in the NBA right now, and there is a key guy on the team with florescent green hair.

You can run an NFL team with the mindset of only looking for guys who look like they were plucked from central casting for a 1950s Ovaltine commercial. That's one way to play it, and I'd say our owner is a bit like that. And it seems we have plenty of fans who prefer that sort of approach. But to me, it's about what the player does on the field, and how he interacts with his teammates and coaches. His physical appearance, hairstyle, or fashion sense is way down the list of things I care about. I want talented players who are winners and great teammates. I don't care what they look like.

[Philosophers]

I can see why this would rub many NFL fans the wrong way, and I understand why, but for me it's still all about what the player does on the field and how he treats and interacts with his teammates. The rest is noise to me. If those two overriding factors are strong, then I don't care how he dresses, what he does with his hair, or even if he paints his nails, personally.

Dennis Rodman was doing stuff like this (and way, way more by the way) several decades ago, and he was an absolutely pivotal part of two different championship winning NBA franchises. The Celtics are the best or second best team in the NBA right now, and there is a key guy on the team with florescent green hair.

You can run an NFL team with the mindset of only looking for guys who look like they were plucked from central casting for a 1950s Ovaltine commercial. That's one way to play it, and I'd say our owner is a bit like that. And it seems we have plenty of fans who prefer that sort of approach. But to me, it's about what the player does on the field, and how he interacts with his teammates and coaches. His physical appearance, hairstyle, or fashion sense is way down the list of things I care about. I want talented players who are winners and great teammates. I don't care what they look like.

Rodman did that after he became famous and established his high level of professional play not before he is trying to get to his first contract.

That's my concern for him.  Judgment.  Now he needs to be not drawing attention to himself this way.

[EDjohnst1981]

Caleb Williams is already famous.