Tiki Barber makes a strong case against NYG drafting a quarterback

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/WFAN660/status/1754644823397556706?s=20


"This team needs so much--there just aren't good enough players in enough places," Barber opined. "To put it all on the quarterback... Let's say they draft Drake Maye. 'We got our savior!' and then he's brought with ineptitude and ineffectiveness around him, and he gets beat up and loses confidence [and] he gets hurt as a rookie. Now, what do we do? We're stuck 'cause we haven't built from the foundation."

"Too many teams in the NFL get enamored with building from the head," Barber continued. "You gotta build the legs and that (butt) first. ... Teams that are sitting where they are now, they built it that way. The Kansas City Chiefs built it that way. Did they have a great quarterback in Alex Smith? No. But he was pretty good enough, right? Won double-digit games for long enough, and the foundation was built. And look where they are.

"The San Francisco 49ers have been building with defensive linemen and offensive linemen for a decade now. It's all they do. All right. It's like, 'Damn, the quarterback. We'll take Jimmy Garoppolo, who stinks and can't stay healthy. But guess what? We're gonna consistently be in the playoffs.'

"Foundations win championships or get you in a position to do it. It's not by sticking a pretty head that can be the face of my franchise on top of everything and saying 'Alright, we're good to go.' That's not how it works, man. Build it the right way."

[T200]

It's a misconception when he says, "To put it all on the quarterback..." There isn't one poster here who has said, let alone, believes that getting an elite QB fixes everything. But the QB position does need to be addressed, along with the other areas of need.

The offensive line woes have been addressed. For a myriad of reasons, it hasn't worked out... yet. If the answer was simple, it would have been done. If it was easy, it would have been done.

They can draft a QB and offensive line help, as well as pick up guys in FA.

[MightyGiants]

It's a misconception when he says, "To put it all on the quarterback..." There isn't one poster here who has said, let alone, believes that getting an elite QB fixes everything. But the QB position does need to be addressed, along with the other areas of need.

The offensive line woes have been addressed. For a myriad of reasons, it hasn't worked out... yet. If the answer was simple, it would have been done. If it was easy, it would have been done.

They can draft a QB and offensive line help, as well as pick up guys in FA.

Tim,

In fairness there have been posters pointing to the Texans and saying it can all turn around just with a QB.  I agree with your point that we could possibly fix other problems and address QB.  However, if the Giants trade up for a QB (as many have proposed) then I think what Tiki said is very valid.

[Fletch]

The Mara confederacy is in full effect. Then again is a Giant Alum really going to say Jones stinks. Draft a QB at all costs?

Texans disprove any bs claim. Either a an aspiring QB star is all it takes to turnaround a franchise or you can simultaneously add a new QB and other pieces as well. It isn't a 0zero sum game situation. Either way jones should be riding pine and or cut. But so clear the feelers are out there in keeping this guy and not drafting a QB.

[T200]

Tim,

In fairness there have been posters pointing to the Texans and saying it can all turn around just with a QB.  I agree with your point that we could possibly fix other problems and address QB.  However, if the Giants trade up for a QB (as many have proposed) then I think what Tiki said is very valid.

Rich,

In fairness, those remarks were in response to folks saying Daniel Jones needs a better supporting cast to be productive.

Everything can't and won't be fixed this offseason.

[kingm56]

Tim,

In fairness there have been posters pointing to the Texans and saying it can all turn around just with a QB.  I agree with your point that we could possibly fix other problems and address QB.  However, if the Giants trade up for a QB (as many have proposed) then I think what Tiki said is very valid.

A QB can absolutely turn a franchise around; however, there's a huge difference between a 3-14 team earning respectability and actually competing for a SB. For the latter, Hou must improve their roster.  In the modern NFL, it starts with the QB. Yet, that doesn't mean you don't need talent-up and-down the roster.  With the right QB, the Giants could also earn respectability; yet, they'll still be a long way from winning a SB without more talent.

[MightyGiants]

A QB can absolutely turn a franchise around; however, there's a huge difference between a 3-14 team earning respectability and actually competing for a SB. For the latter, Hou must improve their roster.  In the modern NFL, it starts with the QB. Yet, that doesn't mean you don't need talent-up and-down the roster.  With the right QB, the Giants could also earn respectability; yet, they'll still be a long way from winning a SB without more talent.

Between you and @Fletch, I think @T200 realizes I was correct.   Still, here is what I have seen.  When good teams draft QBs their success rate is much higher than when bad teams draft a QB.  From what I have been seeing when a good team drafts a potential franchise QB, they have about a 75% success rate and even find gems in the later rounds.   When a bad team drafts a potential QB they have about a 25% chance of hitting on their QB.

Tiki is spot on.  Teams with good coaching, scheme, pass protection, and some weapons for their QB to throw to, have a much easier time developing their prospects into winners than teams where their new QB is running for their lives and desperately looking for open receivers, all with the added pressure of playing from behind.

[Fletch]

Between you and @Fletch, I think @T200 realizes I was correct.   Still, here is what I have seen.  When good teams draft QBs their success rate is much higher than when bad teams draft a QB.  From what I have been seeing when a good team drafts a potential franchise QB, they have about a 75% success rate and even find gems in the later rounds.   When a bad team drafts a potential QB they have about a 25% chance of hitting on their QB.

Tiki is spot on.  Teams with good coaching, scheme, pass protection, and some weapons for their QB to throw to, have a much easier time developing their prospects into winners than teams where their new QB is running for their lives and desperately looking for open receivers, all with the added pressure of playing from behind.

He is saying the same thing Jones-lovers here are saying and presumably what Mara wants. This is not the first time Tiki is so obviously just trying to score kiss-ass point with the Giants.

Alex Smith wasn't a good QB? A 3x Pro Bowler. He had a high clutch factor with a good record of come from behind wins. He made an awesome comeback.

Jimmy G sucked? The 9ers couldn't even win a game before he got there. He went like 5-0  when he started ; threw like 300 yards a game in all of them. He went to the SB ; was supposed to replace Brady.

[MightyGiants]

He is saying the same thing Jones-lovers here are saying

"Jones-lover"?  I recall yesterday you were complaining that people considered you a troll.   Well if you don't want people to consider you a troll it would be wise not to act like one.  So lose the nonsensical labels and stick to talking football.

[Fletch]

Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't.

By any objective and even subjective measure ... Jones did not accomplish what Alex Smith has on different teams. He is not as good. Jones did not accomplish what Jimmy G has done with the 49ers.

And by the by, I was called a troll by a poster who is obviously carrying a grudger for  pointing out the inconsistencies of cheering for players who have committed violent heinous crimes while acting like someone is the devil incarnate because their opinions on vax. It was politically motivated smear.

[katkavage]

Tiki in the bubble. All those in the bubble can't evaluate clearly.

[MightyGiants]

Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't.

By any objective and even subjective measure ... Jones did not accomplish what Alex Smith has on different teams. He is not as good. Jones did not accomplish what Jimmy G has done with the 49ers.

And by the by, I was called a troll by a poster who is obviously carrying a grudger for  pointing out the inconsistencies of cheering for players who have committed violent heinous crimes while acting like someone is the devil incarnate because their opinions on vax. It was politically motivated smear.

The golden rule (treat others as you wish to be treated) is pretty much universally accepted.  I am pretty sure you would not appreciate people dismissing you out of hand as some irrational Jones hater.

[katkavage]

Tiki is ensconced in the Giant's bubble. Like Eli. Like Banks. Like others close to the organization. They  can't make objective opinions.

[Giant Jim]

He's right about building from the bottom, the feet. On the offensive side, the feet is the offensive line. The head are the WR's & non-blocking TE's. RB's are the top of the head. But the QB is the core. It's the hardest, most expensive and most important position. If a team starts with a QB, it needs to protect him, even if it means waiting to build the defense.

The other thing teams need to do is keep top players from reaching free agency. Whether you like a player like McKinney or not, what will it cost to replace him? With all the needs around the team, why waste a draft pick for a safety when they could've extended him last year for less than he'll get now as a free agent? 4 years and done. Losing Pugh and Richburg hurt badly back then. High draft picks that may not have been pro bowlers, but they were played so much better than anyone else they brought in until Thomas.

The Giants took a major step back from rebuilding when they drafted Barkley, the top of the head and overpaid for free agent OL. Mara thought Barkley was all Manning needed. What phase of the rebuild are they at right now? At least 3 OL needed and a gigantic question mark at QB, the foot and the main part of the body.

[PSUBeirut]

He's right.  As much as I don't want to admit it.  I think Daniel Jones could be our Alex Smith, if we play our cards right.