- I re-watched the first 6 games of the season - my recommendation -

[sxdxca38]

Finally, DJ had a choice between WDR and Breda and he didn't pull the trigger. Robinson needed to make a cleaner cut inside but it was one Defender on two. The Mike came in to cover WDR when DJ hesitated as he gave up on Waller, who was then open but DJ was fixed on that right side so he passed him off to the high Safety. Again on DJ. He had options and panicked.

On the 3rd sack, I would agree with you here, that DJ could have hit Wandale for a 3 yard gain, but it still would have setup 3rd and 4, and he would have taken a hit as he threw it, if he could have gotten it off because a defender was coming through the line.

Or if he hits Breida in the flat, it may have been for a loss or no gain since a defender was right there.

So, on this last one, he could have possibly avoided that, so I agree with you here, but that is just my opinion as well

[sxdxca38]

so just for record @sxdxca38 , you are saying PFF is WRONG and in fact Daniel Jones is not the 2nd worst QB in the NFL at picking up pressures? I would bet PFF did not record 10 of 11 of the Jones sacks that game as the Olines fault. Just a hunch. I guess you know more than PFF, and we are all just appealing to authority.

https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1757465944824193328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1757465944824193328%7Ctwgr%5E30742007569c47df21f2d76958281c7245ee50b7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgiantsfans.net%2Fmessage_board%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D69114.0

No, sadly, that is not what I am saying.

What I said was in the first five games he played against Dallas, San Fran, Seattle, and Miami. All playoff teams, and two had top five defenses. Your defensive competition has an impact on your performance, would you not agree?

And for the record Andrew Thomas their best LT got injured in the opening game against Dallas, second drive I believe. Losing him affects your O line and QB's performance, would you not agree?

T. Taylor played in week 6 against Buffalo, a top 4 defense and put up 9 points.

Now to address your stat, it is too small of a sample size to prove anything, as DJ only played in 6 games, and in the last one he got injured in the 1st quarter. 

To further show why I disagree with your statement, is because in 2021 DJ was only responsible for 8% of his total QB pressures, and he played in 11 games.

He was one of the best at not creating pressures that year in the league.

This further shows, that using a small sample size of only 6 games in 2023, is a logical fallacy and can give you faulty results.

I know you want to prove me wrong, but you're going to have to come up with some stronger evidence, and a larger sample size.

Here is my data below, please have a look...

QB's creating pressure

[sxdxca38]

I did my own research and provided input at the appropriate time, back in October.  You're more than welcome to find that thread. I see NO reason to go back and rehash a game that occurred 6 months ago.  Ed was kind enough to provide exerts for you; hopefully that type of in-depth analysis will allow you to view this game from an alternate/more informed perspective.  I know it helped me back in Oct...

Concerning Aikman and Buck, they were watching the game live; you get an entirely different perspective after watching the tape.  Do you agree with that notion?  Obviously you do  as you bought a package to afford you the privilege. I already own the All-22 package; in fact, if you go back to September, you'll note I was encouraging everyone with disposable income to do the same.  It's worth every dime.

My goal is not to prove you wrong (with the exception of correcting the record on 6 sacks allowed); In short, I simply don't agree with a lot of your opinions and do my best to provide cogent counterpoints.  Isn't that the point of an internet discussion board? This game is no exception; I simply can't fathom how anyone who watched the All-22 tape came away without severe concerns for the starting QB. When I watched the tape, I was far more concerned about DJ's aforementioned limitations than the bad Oline.  I simply don't believe I can add anymore to the discussion than was already provided back in Oct and Ed in this thread.  I happen to agree with the latter's assessment and fundamentally disagree with your assertion that DJ is the victim of the offensive line; again, there's a symbiotic relationship between the OL and QB. I also know there's no data I can show, or analysis that will change your mind.  You believe DJ is a top 10 QB, who's held back by a poor OL, coaching, and skilled players. I simply disagree with that notion.  We can leave it at that...

Thank you for your response, I appreciated it, as it was respectful.

I haven't stated in recent times that DJ is a top ten quarterback, so please do not misquote me.

What I did say before the beginning of the 2023 season, is that could DJ be a top ten QB? that is all.

Chris Simms had DJ ranked as a top 11 QB before the 2023 season.

In 2022 - DJ's QB RTG was 92.5 which ranked him 13th, and his QBR was 62.9 which ranked him 6th. That puts him around the ten spot doesn't it?

However we must account for the competition that they played against, so I would concede this point.

Several experts and analysts also felt he was ascending, but this was all before the 2023 season.

I believe even you had him slated and ranked somewhere between a top 12-18 QB? Am I wrong?

And as I said, the Giants faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season last year, it was brutal, would you agree with that?

And they lost Andrew Thomas their best LT in the second drive of the opening game against Dallas, could that not affect his performance?

Just something to think about, as I'll leave my other messages and posts for you to read and cogitate on, as I don't have a lot more to say on the subject.

[EliWasrobbed]

No, sadly, that is not what I am saying.

What I said was in the first five games he played against Dallas, San Fran, Seattle, and Miami. All playoff teams, and two had top five defenses. Your defensive competition has an impact on your performance, would you not agree?

And for the record Andrew Thomas their best LT got injured in the opening game against Dallas, second drive I believe. Losing him affects your O line and QB's performance, would you not agree?

T. Taylor played in week 6 against Buffalo, a top 4 defense and put up 9 points.

Now to address your stat, it is too small of a sample size to prove anything, as DJ only played in 6 games, and in the last one he got injured in the 1st quarter. 

To further show why I disagree with your statement, is because in 2021 DJ was only responsible for 8% of his total QB pressures, and he played in 11 games.

He was one of the best at not creating pressures that year in the league.

This further shows, that using a small sample size of only 6 games in 2023, is a logical fallacy and can give you faulty results.

I know you want to prove me wrong, but you're going to have to come up with some stronger evidence, and a larger sample size.

Here is my data below, please have a look...

QB's creating pressure

 

Jones is the 6th highest paid player in the NFL, he does not need your awful excuses about playing against good defenses.

"Too small a sample size LOL".. how about his ENTIRE career in 5 years? Awful.


and ok he was better at avoiding pressure last year, do you not realize he is now once again injured limiting his potential to run and avoid pressure?

What is your purpose with these posts? You ACTUALLY want Jones back next year as the starter? 

[sxdxca38]

Jones is the 6th highest paid player in the NFL, he does not need your awful excuses about playing against good defenses.

"Too small a sample size LOL".. how about his ENTIRE career in 5 years? Awful.


and ok he was better at avoiding pressure last year, do you not realize he is now once again injured limiting his potential to run and avoid pressure?

What is your purpose with these posts? You ACTUALLY want Jones back next year as the starter? 

Hi,

I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to your opinion. However, there is no reason to put me down, and to call my understandings as "awful excuses". This forum was created to have a healthy dialogue between fans, and to do so showing respect for the other party.

Some of the guidelines here say we are not to put the other person down, or to attack them personally. So I would appreciate it if you would not do that to me.

As to answering your question about what is the purpose of my post. In my opening statement I said that I do not think the Giants will be able to land one of the top 3 QB prospects, because I do not think Chicago, Washington, or New England will trade out of the pick.

So instead of drafting a QB with the sixth pick, who is more than likely a watered-down version of one of the top 3, I recommended staying with DJ for another year, rebuilding the right side of the O line and getting a #1 WR in the draft.

And then in the following years go and get the QB you really want without having to give away the farm, that was my intent, nothing more, nothing less.

I have nothing more to say on the subject, as I will now be going back to work. Feel free to respond, but I will more than likely not respond anymore, take care. 

[EliWasrobbed]

Hi,

I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to your opinion. However, there is no reason to put me down, and to call my understandings as "awful excuses". This forum was created to have a healthy dialogue between fans, and to do so showing respect for the other party.

Some of the guidelines here say we are not to put the other person down, or to attack them personally. So I would appreciate it if you would not do that to me.

As to answering your question about what is the purpose of my post. In my opening statement I said that I do not think the Giants will be able to land one of the top 3 QB prospects, because I do not think Chicago, Washington, or New England will trade out of the pick.

So instead of drafting a QB with the sixth pick, who is more than likely a watered-down version of one of the top 3, I recommended staying with DJ for another year, rebuilding the right side of the O line and getting a #1 WR in the draft.

And then in the following years go and get the QB you really want without having to give away the farm, that was my intent, nothing more, nothing less.

I have nothing more to say on the subject, as I will now be going back to work. Feel free to respond, but I will more than likely not respond anymore, take care. 

that is fair i am sorry you feel that way.  the "awful excuses" was not meant to be a personal attack against you but on the points made.

[sxdxca38]

I know many here want QB prospects Williams, Mcdaniels and Maye, and I understand, and I get it, as it would be nice get one of them, but realistically the Giants have little to no chance at any of them.

After watching the first 6 games, the O-line was being manhandled and DJ had no time and no shot. If you want to see a good example of this, go and rewatch the Seahawks game, he literally had to play perfect, ball coming out in 2 seconds or less, and even then, it would have been extremely difficult to win. This was noted by the announcers, Aikman and Buck.

The first five out of six opponents were:
 
A) Cowboys - #5 defense
B) 49ers - #3 defense
C) Seahawks
D) Dolphins
E) Bills - #4 defense (Tyrod started)

The team was 1-5 at this point, as they faced a buzzsaw the first 6 games of the season. DJ throws a good ball, has a strong arm, and is accurate enough to win with.

And for those saying Tyrod was better, he put up a whopping 9 points against the Bills defense, and 14 points against the terrible 4-13 Commanders the following week, so he isn't the long-term answer either.

I also do not think panicking and picking a new QB at 6 just because you need one is the right answer either, that just makes things worse, especially if you get it wrong.

So here is my recommendation, feel free to agree or disagree with this, but this is what I would do.

With the first 3 picks use them on a #1 WR and beef up the O line with the other two picks.

Since DJ is already under contract for the 2024 season, let him play it out and see what he can do when you give him more time, so he can throw some deeper passes. You may actually be surprised that the DJ of 2022 comes back, and him and the team performs well next season, but let's just see.

If they are terrible again, then at that point you can unload the DJ contract, and then look at new QB's in the following seasons 2025-2026 without having to give away the farm for one of them.

Feel free to agree or disagree, but that is what I would do, curious your thoughts?

 

On February 18th, 2024, I had made the following post up above, several months prior to the draft.

The reason why I wanted to share this post was because several of the things that were shared have come true, which have been highlighted in bold up above.

If the first part has already transpired, then there is a strong possibility that DJ and the Giants bounce back in 2024, which is addressed in the second part.

Just wanted to share, as I'm now off to work.