Josh Ezeudu and Marcus McKethan

[MightyGiants]

I was listening to the Giants Insider podcast this morning (one of the Giants' mouthpiece reporters)


The topic of those two linemen from the 2022 draft class (Eze rnd 3 and McKethen rnd 5)

Biz repeated they weren't "busts" but that they appeared to be backups rather than starters.

If these two often-injured O-linemen prove to be nothing more than backups, would you consider them failed picks by Schoen?

[UKGiantsFan]

Ezeudu, absolutely is a failed pick. You shouldn't have 3rd rounders that don't start unless they play a key role as a 3rd WR or nickel CB & see action 60% of snaps anyway.

McKethan? Nah, he was a long shot to be anything.

[MightyGiants]

Ezeudu, absolutely is a failed pick. You shouldn't have 3rd rounders that don't start unless they play a key role as a 3rd WR or nickel CB & see action 60% of snaps anyway.

McKethan? Nah, he was a long shot to be anything.

I think what made the Ezeudu bust worse was when NYG drafted him, most were like, "Who?".   Ezeudu wasn't projected to be drafted that high.  If you are going to do your own thing in terms of how you value players, you really need to get it right, or you just look incompetent.

Plus, both of these picks were from a college team that was considered to have a very poor line.  It would be like NFL teams raiding the Giant's O-line roster (minus Thomas) with big-money FA contracts.   You want to acquire successful players, not unsuccessful ones

[Ed Vette]

I don't see McKethan worthy of more than the practice squad. Ezeudu might have a comeback with better coaching but they need to decide where he plays and work on those skills. I would have hoped that his offseason training program focused on that. I see him as a backup and not a starter so both these were failed picks. As Ceri said, a third round pick should be a starter.

[Jclayton92]

I think Ezeudu should get reps at swing all offseason.

But that was the covid draft and their first season so I'm not going to be too harsh on it.

[MightyGiants]

I think Ezeudu should get reps at swing all offseason.

But that was the covid draft and their first season so I'm not going to be too harsh on it.

I thought the Toney draft was the Covid draft.  By the time the next draft rolled around most of the restrictions had been lifted or there were workarounds

[Jclayton92]

I thought the Toney draft was the Covid draft.  By the time the next draft rolled around most of the restrictions had been lifted or there were workarounds

Pretty sure they did all interviews and everything through video still during that draft.

[GloryDays]

I was listening to the Giants Insider podcast this morning (one of the Giants' mouthpiece reporters)


The topic of those two linemen from the 2022 draft class (Eze rnd 3 and McKethen rnd 5)

Biz repeated they weren't "busts" but that they appeared to be backups rather than starters.

If these two often-injured O-linemen prove to be nothing more than backups, would you consider them failed picks by Schoen?

I would be really concerned about Joe Schoen and his staff's ability to assess O line talent. There has to be a real change there based on pretty clear results.

[Bob In PA]

Though I agree with Ceri I'm inclined to give Schoen a "pass" (generally speaking) for one more year (this one).

When he took over, the team was a mess (lack of talent, money and -most important- identity) so in addition to "fighting" 31 other teams in the draft and free agency with a dull sword, they had to make some tough decisions and gambles from the outset, all while attempting to be competitive.

The answer to the question "Where do we start to fix this mess?" was far from clear, and Schoen was a first-time GM so it was inevitable after the "honeymoon" period was over that the fan-base would begin questioning him.

Bob

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Though I agree with Ceri I'm inclined to give Schoen a "pass" (generally speaking) for one more year (this one).

When he took over, the team was a mess (lack of talent, money and -most important- identity) so in addition to "fighting" 31 other teams in the draft and free agency with a dull sword, they had to make some tough decisions and gambles from the outset, all while attempting to be competitive.

The answer to the question "Where do we start to fix this mess?" was far from clear, and Schoen was a first-time GM so it was inevitable after the "honeymoon" period was over that the fan-base would begin questioning him.

Bob

I don't know how anyone could not give him a pass. Talk about "drinking from the fire hose", Schoen took over a bad team, in cap hell, and had a few weeks to assess where the Giants were at, to meet the media, hire a head coach, do a deep assessment of ALL the problems facing the team, put together a coaching staff, prepare for the draft (with scouts he never met before), assess cap issues, fix the cap, bring in FAs or letting them walk, travel around the country to see players first hand, attend the Senior Bowl, the combine, and...conduct his first draft as the Giants' new GM

I can't imagine trying to accomplish so much in so little amount of time. Was he the right choice? Absolutely!!!

[MightyGiants]

Though I agree with Ceri I'm inclined to give Schoen a "pass" (generally speaking) for one more year (this one).

When he took over, the team was a mess (lack of talent, money and -most important- identity) so in addition to "fighting" 31 other teams in the draft and free agency with a dull sword, they had to make some tough decisions and gambles from the outset, all while attempting to be competitive.

The answer to the question "Where do we start to fix this mess?" was far from clear, and Schoen was a first-time GM so it was inevitable after the "honeymoon" period was over that the fan-base would begin questioning him.

Bob

Bob,

I can't help but feel like it's deja vu all over again. 

The last GM (Gettleman) came in with a similar "I need to fix the O-line" plan.

Gettleman drafted G Will Hernandez and signed T Nate Solder and G Patrick Omameh.


Schoen drafted T Evan Neal, G Josh Ezeudu, G Marcus McKethan, and signed G Mark Glowinski.


It appeared neither GM's quick fix solution worked.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Bob,

I can't help but feel like it's deja vu all over again. 

The last GM (Gettleman) came in with a similar "I need to fix the O-line" plan.

Gettleman drafted G Will Hernandez and signed T Nate Solder and G Kareem Martin.


Schoen drafted T Evan Neal, G Josh Ezeudu, G Marcus McKethan, and signed G Mark Glowinski.


It appeared neither GM's quick fix solution worked.

IMO, there is no real "quick fix" to fixing the line. FAs are band-aids...and very expensive ones if you look at top shelf, and will set you back big time if you get it wrong. No better example than Solder 

It starts with good drafting and good coaching of YOUNG players who stick together for a long period of time until they work together as one. Constant change is the death of an offensive line. Neal is a big time talent who has had...I'll be nice..."issues". But his length, athleticism, and strength appear to be star quality. For the time being, he needs to have a RG next to him that he trusts and works with in tandem and it wouldn't hurt to have a big blocking TE to assist him until he's the real deal...knock on wood

Once a tackle produces, defensive coaches will start to use their best pass rushes against the other side of the line. Neal's regression has a lot to do with Thomas' progression. As a rookie, Neal got to see all the pressures that could be finagled by savvy DCs, to get to the QB. And just like with Thomas, once Neal has some success, DCs will look for other weak spots to exploit and suddenly Neal will look great because they are no longer targeting him with everything they got on every single play

I don't think they should automatically put Neal at guard, but if that's the decision of the coaches, then so be it. We have the makings of a line at LT and Center, with a chance (and I think a good chance) at having at top flight RT. We need two quality guards and a swing tackle and a COACH WHO CAN TURN LEMONS INTO LEMONADE

[Bob In PA]

FAs are band-aids.

Jolly:  That's generally true, unless you follow the rules in the other thread (the one with the 33rd Team link - the title is "Is It Smart For NFL Teams To Build Through Free Agency?").  And those players are very difficult to get at a reasonable price, because everyone knows free agents are generally nothing more than temporary fixes (like you said... band-aids).

So there just won't be a very high degree of likeliness that the Giants will be able to really help themselves in free-agency (regarding guards). The one good ones will essentially have a choice of teams and that probably leaves the Giants out.  Although Onwanu is my favorite (and already on an East-Coast cold-weather team) here are the rest of the possibilities who aren't too old:

Kevin Dotson 27 (actually IMO "too old" for a decent-length contract, but a very good player) from Mississippi (Rams)
Robert Hunt 27 (same problem) from Texas (Dolphins)
Jonah Jackson 27 (same problem) from Pennsylvania (Lions) so he's a maybe
Damien Lewis 26 - from Mississippi (Seahawks)
John Simpson 26 - from South Carolina (Ravens)
Mike Onwanu 26 - from Michigan (Patriots) another maybe and my favorite
Ezra Cleveland 25 - from Washington (Jaguars)

Why list the home town? Because it's IMO the one factor that might cause a player to want to play in NY/NJ

Bob

PS. And we still haven't discussed the style of offense their current teams play, and how well each player might fit with the Giants/Daboll/Kafka.

[Ed Vette]

Two FA Linemen helped the Giants win SB's. O'Hara (Cleveland) and McKenzie (Jets).

[Stringer Bell]

Neal is a big time talent who has had...I'll be nice..."issues". But his length, athleticism, and strength appear to be star quality. For the time being, he needs to have a RG next to him that he trusts and works with in tandem and it wouldn't hurt to have a big blocking TE to assist him until he's the real deal...knock on wood

Neal may have been a big time talent and athletic in college, but he has shown absolutely none of that in the pros. In fact, the complete opposite. He's shown terrible footwork. He's looked painfully slow. He has no idea how to process movement or handle stunts.

If someone needs 2 quality guys on both sides of him just to be passable, then you're just putting a band-aid in the real issue. Neal has shown no ability to play OT at the NFL level.

I don't think they should automatically put Neal at guard, but if that's the decision of the coaches, then so be it. We have the makings of a line at LT and Center, with a chance (and I think a good chance) at having at top flight RT.

Again, Neal hasn't even shown anything that would denote he can be a league-average RT, let alone a top flight one.