Schoen answers fan who hates DJ

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

All I'm saying is Schoen's evaluation of Jones and what quite a few of us have said of Jones match up.

Your bringing up the contract situation is not part of what I'm addressing. You're trying to lump them together and that's why I said it's not absolute. We can agree on one aspect but not the other.

How do you have any idea if the part in bold is true?  The evidence available (Schoen's comments and actions) indicates that the claim isn't true.

[T200]

How do you have any idea if the part in bold is true?  The evidence available (Schoen's comments and actions) indicates that the claim isn't true.

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?msg=942912

[MightyGiants]

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?msg=942912

I truly believe the contract was due to the playoff win and Mara's preference to keep Jones.

Schoen already let everyone know that he didn't want Jones when he didn't pick up the 5th-year option. Then, the deal was structured to be able to dump Jones after two years. Two years to get a QB in the draft.

He will not have his career defined by a QB he didn't bring in.

A few points.

While we have insiders who will give us detailed glimpses as to what goes on inside 1925 Giants Way, not one of them has ever reported that Mara has instructed the GM what to do or overrode what a GM wanted to do.   In fact, well-connected beat reporters have stated that it's complete fan fiction that Mara is behind the scenes pulling the strings.

Not picking up the 5-year option indicated that at a point in time, Schoen was unsure what they had in Jones, and so they didn't agree to a guaranteed 5th year.  Since Schoen always had the option to re-sign or franchise, it's not accurate to say "Schoen didn't want Jones".

[Fletch]

Is anyone towing the company line over at Jets HQ when it comes to the QB they drafted 2nd overall?

the owner certainly isn't, and that paves the way for other critics. Zach also [provides for good scapegoat. Whereas here, the emperor is not wearing any clothes and mara loves Daniel Jones so we have to endure yet another year of excuses for Daniel Jones.

QB rating a dubious stat where the highest ratings are held by QBs in the modern era. I guess people like Joe Namath couldn't play QB?

QBR a made up ESPN stat.

PFF who even knows how they come up with their rating system and how do they know what the teams are trying to do on a play?

[Fletch]

Never said Barkley the player was a bust. I hated drafting a running back at 2 and I was right that it was mistake. Eli was a Hall of Fame QB, but they should have rebuilt and moved on when Gettleman took over. Instead they thought they could build around an aging QB. My point was that one good game does not indicate a career. I was referring to Schoen pointing out the win against a mediocre Minnesota team as a breakout for Jones.

Why was it a mistake? And again who would you have drafted at that spot? If you wanted a QB and you felt a RB at 2 was a wasted pick--then the obvious thing to do would have been to draft Darnold.

[T200]

A few points.

While we have insiders who will give us detailed glimpses as to what goes on inside 1925 Giants Way, not one of them has ever reported that Mara has instructed the GM what to do or overrode what a GM wanted to do.   In fact, well-connected beat reporters have stated that it's complete fan fiction that Mara is behind the scenes pulling the strings.

Not picking up the 5-year option indicated that at a point in time, Schoen was unsure what they had in Jones, and so they didn't agree to a guaranteed 5th year.  Since Schoen always had the option to re-sign or franchise, it's not accurate to say "Schoen didn't want Jones".

The absence of a report about Mara's influence means nothing. He's the owner. He has influence, to varying degrees.

"Joe, we really did a disservice to this kid by not protecting him. He deserves more than what we've given him to date. I know you didn't draft him and you don't want to pick up his 5th-year option. I completely understand. Hopefully he plays well enough to earn your trust."

If that's a one-on-one conversation, what insider is there to report it? As I said, the lack of a report is a non-factor.

Not picking up a 5th-year option means that Schoen didn't want to sign Jones to a long-term deal. If Schoen inherited Mahomes in the same situation, I think that option gets picked up.

Just know that I am on record with a very strong feeling that the Giants will pick a QB in this draft. And if they trade up for him, it will solidify my point even more that they are not sold on Jones.

[MightyGiants]

the owner certainly isn't, and that paves the way for other critics. Zach also [provides for good scapegoat. Whereas here, the emperor is not wearing any clothes and mara loves Daniel Jones so we have to endure yet another year of excuses for Daniel Jones.

QB rating a dubious stat where the highest ratings are held by QBs in the modern era. I guess people like Joe Namath couldn't play QB?

QBR a made up ESPN stat.

PFF who even knows how they come up with their rating system and how do they know what the teams are trying to do on a play?

I appreciate that you like to dismiss data that doesn't fit your beliefs, but I don't agree with that approach.  When it comes to stats, I look at who gets sorted to the top of the list.  If the best players make it to the top, that I will accept a stat as useful.

Take QB rating

Filtered for QBs who played double-digit games, the top ten are (Regular season, which one should keep in mind with Mahomes who was played much better in the playoffs)

Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Lamar Jackson
Tua Tagovailoa
CJ Stroud
Russel Wilson
Jared Goff
Derek Carr
Jordan Love
Baker Mayfield

You look at how many playoff QBs are in the top ten, and despite your claims to the contrary, the QB rating is still a solid measure.

Now QBR

Brock Purdy
Dak Prescott
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Patrick Mahommes
Jordan Love
Tua Tagovailoa
Jared Goff
Jalen Hurts


So how do you explain this "made-up stat" doing such a great job identifying the top QBs?????

I am not going to put in the work for PFF, but needless to say, PFF's top 10 also showed an excellent correlation to the top grades and the top QBs

[Fletch]

@ Mighty it doesn't fit my narrative.

Those QBs not only have high QBr QB rating and PFF but they also have things like top 10 passing yards ; Top ten TDs thrown , and things like pro bowl awards, and votes for MVP.

Are you really saying Daniel jones is in that category despite having NONE OF THOSE OTHER THINGS except some dubious , subjective stat? Wasn't there someone here touting Jacoby Brisset as a good QB because of his QBR? Seems to me like people trying to justify some stinky QB pulls these stats up. Also, you can be a QB who totally stinks and still have a respectable QBR if you run the ball a lot and ; never throw a pick but at the same time never play with any balls and throw a pass over 4 yards.

Again you never answered the question about it grading modern QBs higher.