Wilson

[uconnjack8]

And when Brady left every quarterback thereafter looked like dog poo, while he won yet another Super Bowl. The fact of the matter is that Pete Carroll is a defensive coach and is not an offensive genius. Let's not forget that before he was the head coach of the Seahawks he was the head coach of the Jets and Patriots and both of those stops his quarterbacks were nothing special. The idea that he somehow sprinkled his magical fairy dust onto an average quarterback and turned him into a nine time pro bowler is laughably absurd.

So is the idea that it was all Brady and not at all BB.

[zephirus]

Well if you said it than it must be 100% true. Coaches don't make players, they can only hamper them. I remember dolts trying to claim that Belichek was the real genius not Brady. How'd that work out in the end?

So by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way?  I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong.  Very enlightening.  The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl.  How do you explain that?

I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well.  Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady.  He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career.  The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006.  Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions.  Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm. 

The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches.  To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.

[uconnjack8]

So by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way?  I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong.  Very enlightening.  The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl.  How do you explain that?

I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well.  Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady.  He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career.  The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006.  Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions.  Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm. 

The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches.  To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.

Anyone who thinks it was all Brady and nothing to do with BB should go watch both Rams Super Bowls.

Patriots scored 3 offensive TDs in postseason during  TBs 1st Super Bowl run and somehow it was all him.

[T200]

So by your logic a coach-less team is ideal because nobody can get in their way?  I'm glad to see that every sport in this history of sports that has coaches has gotten it wrong.  Very enlightening.  The 2007 Giants had a single player that made the Pro Bowl but won the Superbowl.  How do you explain that?

I've always loved the revisionist history about the Patriots and Belichick/Brady as well. Tom Brady was not always Tom Brady.  He was a nice player who played well within a system for the formative years of his career.  The Patriots had a great defense and a team that won championships as the team was usually greater than the sum of it's parts from 2001-2006.  Tom Brady has said so himself on many occasions.  Belichick absolutely benefitted immensely from Brady by 2007 and beyond, and many of those teams would not have won championships without Brady at the helm. 

The simple reality is that great players are more valuable than great coaches.  To suggest that great coaching doesn't matter, or can't make players better is an absurd notion though.

That's the best summation of the Brady/Belichick era. If another team drafted Brady, I don't think we know who he is.

It's a clear case of the student surpassing the teacher. But without the teacher...

[spiderblue43]

Sean Payton made a huge mistake coming to be the Bronco Honcho. Should have been more patient than to agree to the ownership chaos in Denver. Maybe the Chargers could have been there this year .maybe the Pokes. Hey, he got paid, but he's also got a lot of cow chips to clean up, starting at qb.

 :  

[Painter]

Never mind the coach versus player rationalizing as it does nothing to diminish Lee's (zephirus) well-reasoned position regarding whatever interest the Giants might have in Russell Wilson.

Aside from coddling the Jones haters, and otherwise costing cap peanuts for a persona non grata, I can see little benefit to the team in bringing in a self-absorbed, broadly unpopular teammate who at most can do little more than cause the Giants to be picking later next time while they're still seeking to find both his and Jones's replacements. 

Cheers!

[madbadger]

So is the idea that it was all Brady and not at all BB.

I'm saying that if Brady played for Andy Reid and not Bill Belichek his numbers would pretty much be the same if not better. A great coach doesn't hamper his quarterback but the quarterback is who he is. The problem is that there are so many bad coaches who hamper a quarterback that we have begun to think coaches make the player. It's simply not true.

[Fletch]

The question I have is Wilson was considered a shoe in for HOF two years ago. Is that still the case today? I think the answer is no. Let Russ cook means a qb who is getting benched and cut.

[DaveBrown74]

When Brady got hurt, BB made Matt Cassal look lime a HOFer with that new offense he ran designed around MC's strengths.  Teams win SBs with all contributing.

Why has he not been able to do the same thing with Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe?

[zephirus]

Why has he not been able to do the same thing with Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe?

I imagine it had something to do with Matt Cassel throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker while Mac Jones is throwing to some cast-offs and nobodys.

I'd also imagine that Matt Cassel having the benefit of sitting the bench and learning the game for 3 seasons behind the best coach/qb combo ever before actually seeing action might have something to do with that as well.

[y_so_blu]

Oops, I clicked on the Brady/Belichick thread. Guess I should have read the title more closely.

Anyway, does this move really help us? We already have Daniel Jones to hold down the fort while we draft and develop a quarterback. Wilson is basically an older, slower, weirder version of Jones with more baggage. I don't see the upside.

[EliWasrobbed]

Oops, I clicked on the Brady/Belichick thread. Guess I should have read the title more closely.

Anyway, does this move really help us? We already have Daniel Jones to hold down the fort while we draft and develop a quarterback. Wilson is basically an older, slower, weirder version of Jones with more baggage. I don't see the upside.

in an awful year AND getting benched, Wilson still had more TD's than Jones has ever had in his entire career. He is a huge upgrade short term over Jones.

[Painter]

in an awful year AND getting benched, Wilson still had more TD's than Jones has ever had in his entire career. He is a huge upgrade short term over Jones.

Sorry, but yeah, and so what? It's a meaningless comparison. Are you assuming that someone the Broncos couldn't wait to get rid of despite the enormous cost to allow them to begin looking for their potential QB of the future is going to make it easier for the Giants to do likewise?

Wilson, whether or not he has a year or two left, is not the Giants QB of the future. Moreover, any degree of success he might have, such as that of Jones in 2022, would only make it more difficult to find a promising successor in the Draft. Unless, not having added a decent or better QB prospect this year, they see Wilson as a stopgap in 2025, he makes no sense to me.

Cheers!

[Hadron]

WTF? He's a hall of fame quarterback who, statistically, was in the upper third of all quarterbacks last year, despite having a dirtbag coach who tried to torpedo him constantly. lol

It's not 2017. He's been on the decline for a while now.

[madbadger]

It's not 2017. He's been on the decline for a while now.

Looked really good last year despite not having good skill position players and a coach invested in his success.