Mike Lombardi thinks the Giants are targeting Drake Maye

[MightyGiants]

Mike's article rehashes (to the point of beating a dead horse) his disdain for Daniel Jones, but when you move past that, you get his take on Drake Maye and how he believes the Giants are targeting him.


I will add my own comment:  I think Mike's reasoning is flawed.  Yes, the Bills hit on Josh Allen.   I think Mike's flaw is that because of that hit, Schoen and Daboll are zeroing in on another Josh Allen.   The draft isn't a supermarket; you draft what's available to you.   In Buffalo, they drafted Josh Allen and created a team and scheme he could be successful int.  What's not a given is that Josh Allen is their prototypical QB the one with all the traits (if the draft was a supermarket) they would be seeking.   We have seen Daboll be successful with different quarterbacks, and he has said he builds his offense around what a quarterback does well.   


In any event, here is the article.


https://vsin.com/nfl/michael-lombardi-what-will-the-giants-do-at-qb/

[Ed Vette]

If his hypothesis comes to fruition, it's going to be a very costly move and a gutsy one at that. I would guess that it would cost them their second and third this year and next year's first round picks. In that case it could wind up being a GM/Coach killer, if it fails or takes too long for him to develop. I can still recall the angry fans after the Eli trade.

I think they sit at six and take who falls to them, or trade back. Looks to me like the top four will be gone by then.

[T200]

A close friend of mine has had Maye pegged for us very early on. He says Maye is the type of QB that Daboll likes and can definitely help him elevate his game.

[MightyGiants]

If his hypothesis comes to fruition, it's going to be a very costly move and a gutsy one at that. I would guess that it would cost them their second and third this year and next year's first round picks. In that case it could wind up being a GM/Coach killer, if it fails or takes too long for him to develop. I can still recall the angry fans after the Eli trade.

I think they sit at six and take who falls to them, or trade back. Looks to me like the top four will be gone by then.

I did a post a couple of months ago that showed trading up into the top 5 has a history of poor outcomes.  I think the Giants became an outlier for that bad outcome both because they were already drafting in the top 5 and the team was talented enough that they could afford to give up the draft capital.  That team that drafted Eli already had Toomer, Tiki, Shockey, Strahan, Joseph, Diehl, O'Hara, and Seubert and drafted Snee.

I don't think the current Giants team has that many red/blue chippers with Burns, Thomas, and Dex as blue or red chippers and beyond that a few guys with potential to become.

[katkavage]

Mike's article rehashes (to the point of beating a dead horse) his disdain for Daniel Jones, but when you move past that, you get his take on Drake Maye and how he believes the Giants are targeting him.


I will add my own comment:  I think Mike's reasoning is flawed.  Yes, the Bills hit on Josh Allen.   I think Mike's flaw is that because of that hit, Schoen and Daboll are zeroing in on another Josh Allen.   The draft isn't a supermarket; you draft what's available to you.   In Buffalo, they drafted Josh Allen and created a team and scheme he could be successful int.  What's not a given is that Josh Allen is their prototypical QB the one with all the traits (if the draft was a supermarket) they would be seeking.   We have seen Daboll be successful with different quarterbacks, and he has said he builds his offense around what a quarterback does well.   


In any event, here is the article.


https://vsin.com/nfl/michael-lombardi-what-will-the-giants-do-at-qb/

I haven't read the article yet, but I think he is more "gettable" for the Giants than Daniels or obviously Williams. I would think McCarthy is within reach but Lombardi thinks that they view Maye with more of an upside. I would rather trade up for Daniels or McCarthy and/or move back a bit and draft Penix.

[nb587]

If his hypothesis comes to fruition, it's going to be a very costly move and a gutsy one at that. I would guess that it would cost them their second and third this year and next year's first round picks. In that case it could wind up being a GM/Coach killer, if it fails or takes too long for him to develop. I can still recall the angry fans after the Eli trade.

I think they sit at six and take who falls to them, or trade back. Looks to me like the top four will be gone by then.

Im not going to argue your point that there alot of angry fans at the Eli trade.  But, there were plenty of fans who thought that the trade was a steal for the Giants, that he was well worth the cost.  I dont know if Maye compares to college Eli.  But it the but if the braintrust believes that, let's figure how how to do it

[MightyGiants]

Im not going to argue your point that there alot of angry fans at the Eli trade.  But, there were plenty of fans who thought that the trade was a steal for the Giants, that he was well worth the cost.  I dont know if Maye compares to college Eli.  But it the but if the braintrust believes that, let's figure how how to do it

The one thing that I find interesting is some of the comments about the Eli Manning trade.  I often hear it called a successful trade due to the two Super Bowl victories. While I don't dispute that two SB trophies are a good outcome, what we don't know is how things would have gone with Rivers or Big Ben, plus the draft capital given up to get Eli.

[katkavage]

The one thing that I find interesting is some of the comments about the Eli Manning trade.  I often hear it called a successful trade due to the two Super Bowl victories. While I don't dispute that two SB trophies are a good outcome, what we don't know is how things would have gone with Rivers or Big Ben, plus the draft capital given up to get Eli.

I was happy with the results, but at the time not happy with the trade only because I believed the Giants had the leverage. Eli didn't want to play for anyone but the Giants. San Diego knew that he was going to be difficult to sign. The Giants could have played hardball and not offered the following years first, but maybe a second. What options did San Diego have?

[Bob In PA]

I will add my own comment:  I think Mike's reasoning is flawed.  Yes, the Bills hit on Josh Allen.  I think Mike's flaw is that because of that hit, Schoen and Daboll are zeroing in on another Josh Allen.  The draft isn't a supermarket; you draft what's available to you.  In Buffalo, they drafted Josh Allen and created a team and scheme he could be successful int.  What's not a given is that Josh Allen is their prototypical QB the one with all the traits (if the draft was a supermarket) they would be seeking.  We have seen Daboll be successful with different quarterbacks, and he has said he builds his offense around what a quarterback does well. 

Rich: If you (or anyone else) saw Schmelk's interview with Matt Waldman (the guy who most teams failed to listen to when he tapped Mahomes as the top QB in the draft when he came out of college), he said the knock on Maye is (most notably) his processing speed. I worry about that, because many people believe that's what's "wrong" with Jones, and I don't think he has figured it out yet (and maybe never will). Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: If you (or anyone else) saw Schmelk's interview with Matt Waldman (the guy who most teams failed to listen to when he tapped Mahomes as the top QB in the draft when he came out of college), he said the knock on Maye is (most notably) his processing speed. I worry about that, because many people believe that's what's "wrong" with Jones, and I don't think he has figured it out yet (and maybe never will). Bob

A few years ago, arm talent was all the rage when scouting QBs, thanks to Mahomes and Josh Allen.  However, I notice that many people using that term really mean the older term, arm strength.

Now, the new hot term is "processing speed".   Much like arm talent, I don't think the term is fully flushed out.   Waldman talked about Daniels processing too fast, in that he passed over one of his targets right before that player got open.

Frankly, I think most people overstate how much one can learn about processing speed from tape.  The reality is the person viewing the tape will need to know the exact play construction and the coaching points given to the QB, and it's even helpful to talk to the QB after the play to see how they saw things.

Much like some "scouts" like to dress up the term arm strength as arm talent, the reality is many scouts are simply gauging how quickly the ball is thrown, which is impacted by the design of the play and the quality of the receivers.  After all, a QB whose first option is often open will get the ball out quicker than a QB who needs to read all the way to their 3rd or 4th read.

Plus, there is the reality of time.  NFL teams have entire scouting departments scouting prospects.  It's nearly impossible for one-man shows to match entire departments of people in terms of time spent scouting the prospects.   As I said, processing speed evaluation is challenging.   Even if you have a pretty good idea of the play construction (and appreciate you don't have the coaching points), you would have to review each play in slow motion, repeatedly stopping it and evaluating when and how/if each receiver was open.

So, while I won't argue that QBs who can go through their progressions quickly and efficiently will be assets to their team, I question how well outsiders can really determine this trait.

[MightyGiants]

Rich: If you (or anyone else) saw Schmelk's interview with Matt Waldman (the guy who most teams failed to listen to when he tapped Mahomes as the top QB in the draft when he came out of college), he said the knock on Maye is (most notably) his processing speed. I worry about that, because many people believe that's what's "wrong" with Jones, and I don't think he has figured it out yet (and maybe never will). Bob

I have been reading and listening to so many QB reviews that the sources are all blurring together.  Someone pointed out that the issue with Maye is he is spot-on accurate if he's throwing to his first read but that his accuracy diminishes when he is throwing to other reads (suggesting he is not doing a good job reorienting his body to make the next throw).

I forget which Simms said it, but I tend to agree that QBs need to make most of the easy throws and throw in a few special ones.  The real issue is if Maye can develop the consistency to make most of his easy throws.

I just remember where I read it.  There is an article on the Athletic where they got some of the top private quarterback coaches in the country to rate and comment on how the top prospect's throwing mechanics

"However his accuracy diminishes as he moves through progressions, (it's) a very fixable issue," a coach said. "However, in a non-developmental league, it needs to be fixed immediately, and this can only be done through on-field reps."

This coach's observation is that when Maye is throwing on rhythm to his first read, he's accurate. But as he has to move to his second and third reads, he struggles to consistently get his feet set correctly. Footwork has proved to be correctable at the next level.

https://theathletic.com/5390475/2024/04/09/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-mechanics-rankings-grades/

[Bob In PA]

Now, the new hot term is "processing speed".  Much like arm talent, I don't think the term is fully flushed out.  Waldman talked about Daniels processing too fast, in that he passed over one of his targets right before that player got open.

Rich: As for Daniels, what you said is one thing that does worry although he's top of my list, but that has nothing to do with processing speed.

I was referring to his critique of May.

The knock on Maye by Waldman is that his "slow" processing speed often leads to reduction in the yardage to be obtained on a particular play, because it's taking him too long to decide to throw the ball, which means it's often thrown to a less-than-optimal spot, causing the receiver to have to break stride or contort his body or even stop moving. This has little (or nothing) to do with completion rate. Maye is still very good at getting completions (good accuracy, good target selection, good at tight windows, etc) but in the NFL a lack of optimal processing speed not only costs you yardage, it also reduces your completion rate because defenders in NFL are far superior to what you ordinarily see in college. More often than not, pro CB's and S's are almost draped over the receiver, so any chance you lose to get him the ball at the optimal time and location is a very serious matter. Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: As for Daniels, what you said is one thing that does worry although he's top of my list, but that has nothing to do with processing speed.

I was referring to his critique of May.

The knock on Maye by Waldman is that his "slow" processing speed often leads to reduction in the yardage to be obtained on a particular play, because it's taking him too long to decide to throw the ball, which means it's often thrown to a less-than-optimal spot, causing the receiver to have to break stride or contort his body or even stop moving. This has little (or nothing) to do with completion rate. Maye is still very good at getting completions (good accuracy, good target selection, good at tight windows, etc) but in the NFL a lack of optimal processing speed not only costs you yardage, it also reduces your completion rate because defenders in NFL are far superior to what you ordinarily see in college. More often than not, pro CB's and S's are almost draped over the receiver, so any chance you lose to get him the ball at the optimal time and location is a very serious matter. Bob

Bob,

I believe that Waldman was speaking of Jayden Daniels rather than Daniel Jones.

As for DJ, I think the problem was he was sloppy in his professions early in his career, leading to too many INTs.  So Garrett and Judge drilled it in DJ's head to only throw the ball when he was absolutely sure. Now Daboll has been trying to ease back that terrible coaching (in my opinion) without going too far the other way that DJ goes back to too many INTs.

As Mara said, the Giants did everything possible to screw that young man up.

[uconnjack8]

Lombardi doesn't know who the Giants are targetting.

[nb587]

Bob,

I believe that Waldman was speaking of Jayden Daniels rather than Daniel Jones.

As for DJ, I think the problem was he was sloppy in his professions early in his career, leading to too many INTs.  So Garrett and Judge drilled it in DJ's head to only throw the ball when he was absolutely sure. Now Daboll has been trying to ease back that terrible coaching (in my opinion) without going too far the other way that DJ goes back to too many INTs.

As Mara said, the Giants did everything possible to screw that young man up.

I get a kick out of Mara sentence that's the last sentence in your post.  I believe 100% that Garrett was hired at Mara's "request" and close to that number that Judge was hired in the same way.