The If's and But's About It

[TONKA56]

 

Raw stats tell the story of the game.

32 of 58 for 316 with 2TDs and 0 INTs doesn't sound that impressive, yet it's probably the greatest game I've ever seen a quarterback play.

But I suppose you need to factor that against 64 dropbacks, six sacks, 12 knockdowns and 20 QB hits.

[Ed Vette]

Raw stats tell the story of the game.

Take for example the Tennessee Game to start the season, Jones did absolutely nothing outside of one deep pass in the 4th quarter and besides that it was defense, rushing, and special teams that won us that game.

Jones went 17-21 with an 80% cmpl rate, and a 115 rating but had zero effect on the game. So if we looked at your stats then you'd think Jones played extremely well but us as fans that watched the game realized he did absolutely nothing outside that one 60 yard throw in the 4th quarter. Before that he barely had a 100 passing yards the whole game, but we are supposed to act like he did well.

Sam howell in his 1st year playing put up more production than Jones ever has, and that's sad. In Jones best year his production tied Davis Mills which is equally sad. There's no way to get around that, 3rd and 4th round picks on equally bad teams putting up the same or more production than Jones. There is no defense of that other than to say Jones isn't that guy and quite frankly has never been that guy ever throughout high school, college, and the pros. He has 1 game a year that make people excited and forget about the other 15 were he played horribly.

You must love being patronized. lol

[MightyGiants]

You must love being patronized. lol

Ed,

You are being rather psychologically rigid.  I value old sayings and parables quite a bit. I consider analogies valuable tools. I use them all the time to help me make decisions and to see and interpret the world.  It's a shame you wouldn't allow me the freedom to follow my beliefs and values.   Then again, I seriously doubt people who know and respect me would have seen things in the worst possible light, as you have done.  Most would have simply would have seen me being me, with no slight or disrespect intended.

[Jclayton92]

32 of 58 for 316 with 2TDs and 0 INTs doesn't sound that impressive, yet it's probably the greatest game I've ever seen a quarterback play.

But I suppose you need to factor that against 64 dropbacks, six sacks, 12 knockdowns and 20 QB hits.

That was 12 years ago but if Jones was throwing for 300 yards and 2 tds a game we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[sxdxca38]

Thank you for answering my question in a respectful and civil manner, that was very kind of you.

[sxdxca38]

You know who had the most passing attempts in the NFL last year?  None other than Sam Howell.   That is the danger of focusing too much on just raw stats, you don't see the whole picture.   You only get the whole picture by considering raw stats, quality stats, and the support a given QB receives.  Otherwise, you risk repeating the mistakes seen in the 3 blind men and the elephant parable


Three blind men come across an elephant.  The first man happens upon its leg, and concludes it's a tree. The second man bumps into its trunk, and concludes it's a snake.  The last blind man feels its tail, and concludes it's a broom.

Mighty,

This is an excellent illustration.

It shows that all of us including myself need to evaluate all of the data, and not just subjective data but objective as well, to come to the proper conclusion.

Thank you so much for sharing it.

[TONKA56]

That was 12 years ago but if Jones was throwing for 300 yards and 2 tds a game we wouldn't be having this discussion.

With all due respect, why does it being 12 years ago matter?

[Jclayton92]

With all due respect, why does it being 12 years ago matter?

Because the game has changed drastically in the past 12 years. The NFl has passed so many rules to help not only the Qb but the WR among other things.

[TONKA56]

Because the game has changed drastically in the past 12 years. The NFl has passed so many rules to help not only the Qb but the WR among other things.

You said raw stats tell the story. Did raw stats only tell the story for the past three years?

[Jclayton92]

You said raw stats tell the story. Did raw stats only tell the story for the past three years?

What are you talking about? 12 years ago 316 yards and 2 tds was a phenomenal game, it would even be a great game today. I was simply saying that in those 12 years they've only made it easier on qbs and wrs to put up more production. So if anything it should be easier.

[kartanoman]

32 of 58 for 316 with 2TDs and 0 INTs doesn't sound that impressive, yet it's probably the greatest game I've ever seen a quarterback play.

But I suppose you need to factor that against 64 dropbacks, six sacks, 12 knockdowns and 20 QB hits.

That's not bad. The best I've seen with my eyes live, and my statistical sample is very small, was 26 of 37 passes for 321 yards, two (2) TDs, one (1) INT; nine (9) carries for 59 yards and one (1) TD. Of course, that was last season's comeback in the desert 🏜  at Glendale over the Cardinals; the tale of two halves game.

If nothing else, Jones proved he could air it out in that game. Yes, he missed once or twice, but he also hit Hyatt and Slayton long as well.

He knows this is the season to produce or his career will move to a new city, simple as that. What's not simple is the hell he's had to endure with this team in trying to establish his career. Some make it through (e.g. Simms, Hostetler, Collins, Manning) while others do not (e.g. Patterson Plank Joe, Craig Morton, Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, etc.).

Even the great ones who did were smacked back down to Earth when the team around them struggled or lost players or their head coach (e.g. 1987, 1991, 1994).

BTW, I visited your Alma Mater last month when the NY Rangers came to town. Check it out the next time you're out here as they've completely cleaned up the areas around the campus and it looks state of the art now.

Peace!

[TONKA56]

What are you talking about? 12 years ago 316 yards and 2 tds was a phenomenal game, it would even be a great game today. I was simply saying that in those 12 years they've only made it easier on qbs and wrs to put up more production. So if anything it should be easier.

What are you talking about? 12 years ago 316 yards and 2 tds was a phenomenal game, it would even be a great game today. I was simply saying that in those 12 years they've only made it easier on qbs and wrs to put up more production. So if anything it should be easier.

That's not bad. The best I've seen with my eyes live, and my statistical sample is very small, was 26 of 37 passes for 321 yards, two (2) TDs, one (1) INT; nine (9) carries for 59 yards and one (1) TD. Of course, that was last season's comeback in the desert 🏜  at Glendale over the Cardinals; the tale of two halves game.

If nothing else, Jones proved he could air it out in that game. Yes, he missed once or twice, but he also hit Hyatt and Slayton long as well.

He knows this is the season to produce or his career will move to a new city, simple as that. What's not simple is the hell he's had to endure with this team in trying to establish his career. Some make it through (e.g. Simms, Hostetler, Collins, Manning) while others do not (e.g. Patterson Plank Joe, Craig Morton, Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, etc.).

Even the great ones who did were smacked back down to Earth when the team around them struggled or lost players or their head coach (e.g. 1987, 1991, 1994).

BTW, I visited your Alma Mater last month when the NY Rangers came to town. Check it out the next time you're out here as they've completely cleaned up the areas around the campus and it looks state of the art now.

Peace!

MY Alma Mater?

[Ed Vette]

In 2022 a managed game plan of a Rushing Attack and a Quick Passing Game of short passes, supplemented with Read Option Runs and allowing Jones to take off when he saw nothing in the field, DJ had a successful season. Would that be referring to him as a Game Manager? In some respects, yes. Not that GM is a dirty term. All QB's need to manage the game from the huddle to the pre-snap reads, to moving protection and calling audibles.

2022 was a year that showed how Daboll could create a system where Daniel Jones could thrive, but it also covered up his imperfections and liabilities. Part of the reasoning behind the plan was the fact that the Offensive Line would struggle to protect Jones in the pocket and not allow time for downfield throws.

When the decision needed to be made on DJ's contract, they knew that he had skills both tangible and intangible that they could win with and felt that with the proper support of a team around him, they could win games. Oddly enough, they weren't completely sold on him so they created a contract that had an escape after two and three seasons.

Their next step was to try to solidify that Offensive line in 2023 and retain the O-line Coach in his second season, while bringing in some passing weapons in Waller, and Campbell, and drafting deep threat Jalin Hyatt. Unfortunately, the O-Line had injuries, Waller was injured, and the expected improvement from key players did not happen. Daniel Jones was injured and did not finish the season.

Jones was replaced by backup Tyrod Taylor who had some success under slightly better conditions but then he went down to injuries and "Flash In The Pan" Tommy DeVito with his enthusiasm rejuvenated the team and they won some games until he was figured out, bringing in Taylor once again to cap the season off on a higher note. Still in all that, it was apparent that the league figured out what they needed to do defensively based on what was successful for them in the later part of the 2022 season.   

In their post-season evaluation, they knew that the Salary Cap on Jones meant that Jones would be their starting QB in 2024. They brought in three veteran Linemen with a history of success to improve the O-Line. The move they didn't make was to retain the best offensive weapon on the team. The man who was responsible for what success they did have in running the ball. They didn't sign their UFA Saquon Barkley.

Based on all this and however you decide to digest some or all of it, does this look like a Franchise that would have long-term plans for Daniel Jones? Is this a year they would pass on drafting a QB somewhere in the first round?

Obviously, they planned to replace Saquon with Devin Singletary. His production was good in Buffalo but he averaged just slightly over 11 attempts a game. Whether they draft a QB or not, what will be the Offensive Game Plan this season for Daniel Jones?

They had JJ McCarthy sitting on their laps and they passed him up for a Number One Receiver. Regardless of whether they pick up one of the third tier QB's in Pratt or Rattler or a surprise in Milton, either Jones or Lock will be slinging the ball at least for this year and maybe in 2025 too. No if and or buts about it.

[katkavage]

They had JJ McCarthy sitting on their laps and they passed him up for a Number One Receiver. Regardless of whether they pick up one of the third tier QB's in Pratt or Rattler or a surprise in Milton, either Jones or Lock will be slinging the ball at least for this year and maybe in 2025 too. No if and or buts about it.

Agreed and we fans will shake our heads and bitch and moan here while the mediocrity cycle continues and the bodies of GMs and coaches lay scattered about the wreckage.

[uconnjack8]

Guess they didnt have McCarthy or the other QBs left rated as high as the media or some fans.