The Giants draft WR Malik Nabers round one

[kingm56]

Lenn,

In 2022 Daniel Jones had a 93.2 RTG ranked 13th, a 60.2 QBR ranked 6th, and the Giants went 10-7-1 and won a playoff game.

May I ask did you forget about this?

Great, where did the Giants rank in passing yards, passing TDs, and completions?  You know, stats that actually matter to WRs.  @LennG is spot on here.

I love the Nabers pick; after the top 3 QBs came off the board, this was the best option.  Still, the notion Nabers is going to magically evaluate DJ to a top-tier/high-volume passer that's required to win in the modern NFL seems far-fetched.   

I doubt a knowledgeable and venerable poster like Lenn "forgot about 2022." He's capable of analyzing numbers outside an utter vacuum; instead, preferring a macro view. DJ had a good season relative to his past performances; he did NOT have a good season relative to his contemporaries.  His high rating and QBR were byproducts of being overly conservative, coupled with a really good rushing performance/yards; however, when viewed from a macro perspective (i.e. considering all the data), it was nothing special. After 60 games, I think we all have a good idea of DJ's capabilities...

[londonblue]

I understand the pick given his talent and his ability to separate, which Daboll prizes, though I have concerns over his maturity. He is very young and has had some issues. It remains to be seen if we have enough leadership at QB and in the wider locker room to get the best out of him or if he will become a handful down the line. Odunze was the slightly lower ceiling but safer character pick. We will see how it goes. We have to hope DJ or Lock can get him and the rest of a talented but inexperienced WR group the ball!

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1783661708302561443

[andrew_nyGiants]

May I share something?

Daniel Jones has played a total of five seasons in the NFL.

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

In 2022 when the O line performed about average, he posted 3,900 total yards which included his rushing stats, and a QBR of 60.2 which ranked 6th, and a 92.3 RTG which ranked 13th.

I hear that you are saying the Giants weren't a good team in 2022, but the fact that he posted those kinds of numbers on a bad team, and helped them make the playoffs, what would happen if he was actually on a good team?

For instance, the Giants have added an elite #1 WR, and if they upgrade the O line from 30th to say around 15th, do you think Daniel Jones' stats will improve? and will the Giants begin to win again?

This sounds like a conversation between Mara and Schoen.


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[sxdxca38]

Great, where did the Giants rank in passing yards, passing TDs, and completions?  You know, stats that actually matter to WRs.  @LennG is spot on here.

I love the Nabers pick; after the top 3 QBs came off the board, this was the best option.  Still, the notion Nabers is going to magically evaluate DJ to a top-tier/high-volume passer that's required to win in the modern NFL seems far-fetched.   

I doubt a knowledgeable and venerable poster like Lenn "forgot about 2022." He's capable of analyzing numbers outside an utter vacuum; instead, preferring a macro view. DJ had a good season relative to his past performances; he did NOT have a good season relative to his contemporaries.  His high rating and QBR were byproducts of being overly conservative, coupled with a really good rushing performance/yards; however, when viewed from a macro perspective (i.e. considering all the data), it was nothing special. After 60 games, I think we all have a good idea of DJ's capabilities...

Hi,

No one said Nabers is going to magically transform Daniel Jones into an elite passer, or become an elite QB.

Here is what I have said to others and I'll say the same thing to you.

Daniel Jones has played a total of five seasons in the NFL.

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

In 2022 when the O line performed about average, he posted 3,900 total yards which included his rushing stats, and a QBR of 60.2 which ranked 6th, and a 92.3 RTG which ranked 13th.

I hear that you are saying the Giants weren't a good team in 2022, but the fact that he posted those kinds of numbers on a bad team, and helped them make the playoffs, what would happen if he was actually on a good team?

For instance, the Giants have added an elite #1 WR, and if they upgrade the O line from 30th to say around 15th, do you think Daniel Jones' stats will improve? and will the Giants begin to win again?

[Gmo11]

Hi,

No one said Nabers is going to magically transform Daniel Jones into an elite passer, or become an elite QB.

Here is what I have said to others and I'll say the same thing to you.

Daniel Jones has played a total of five seasons in the NFL.

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

In 2022 when the O line performed about average, he posted 3,900 total yards which included his rushing stats, and a QBR of 60.2 which ranked 6th, and a 92.3 RTG which ranked 13th.

I hear that you are saying the Giants weren't a good team in 2022, but the fact that he posted those kinds of numbers on a bad team, and helped them make the playoffs, what would happen if he was actually on a good team?

For instance, the Giants have added an elite #1 WR, and if they upgrade the O line from 30th to say around 15th, do you think Daniel Jones' stats will improve? and will the Giants begin to win again?

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

[kingm56]

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Perciesly the point! It should be clear by now DJ is not going to become the high volume passer necessary to win Championships.  Nabers doesn't change that paradigm.

[TONKA56]

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Perhaps we can win just enough games to put drafting a franchise quarterback out of reach?

[kingm56]

Perhaps we can win just enough games to put drafting a franchise quarterback out of reach?

I believe that's referred to as QB hell, Tonka. 

[katkavage]

Looking back on it, Nabers was always the pick. Sure, they flirted and teased with the potential QBs, but it wasn't going to happen. And if Nabers wasn't there, they would have taken Odunze. No doubt. They invested too much money in Jones to move on from him and not at least try to get their money's worth. They hope that providing him with a weapon like Nabers they can at least recoup some of that money in terms of wins. The Giants are a predictable, conservative franchise. They always have been, usually for the worse. That doesn't mean it won't work out this time. It might very well. But the track record with the Maras, father and son, has been, with the exception of when "outsiders" took control, pretty dismal. I'm old enough to have lived through so many of them and why I remain cynical. But time will tell on this pick and the choices they have made going forward.

[sxdxca38]

If the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Hi GMO,

The Giants and DJ went 10-7-1 in 2022 and won a playoff game without Nabers.

They've added an excellent edge in Brian Burns, and now an elite WR.

Have you seen their upcoming schedule?

I think they can win 10-11 games this year going something like 10-7 or 11-6.

And once there in the playoffs anything can happen.

[Trench]

I saw the Redskins drafted Daniels, I liked him.

Are you referring to something else?

Please explain? thanks

I was referring to a a snapshot they put up on tv pertaining to how many QBs Washington has picked in the past 10 years or so. There were a bunch of them. My point is Jones has had 5 years already as compared to Washington picking QB after QB in the draft.

We know what Jones is. I've heard excuse after excuse for the guy. Time is up. He now has a stud WR and all sorts of other weapons AND his Oline is pretty good. He has to learn from his mistakes - which by evidence of his continuing to take hits instead of throwing the ball away (or sliding) proves it.

[DaveBrown74]

In the two seasons he had a decent offensive line, ranked 18th and 17th, he had his best years.

Hi SXD,

I have seen you make this statement several times recently.

How would you say "his best years" compared to the rest of the league's QBs? Because that is frankly all that matters. Every QB who has played multiple seasons had his own "best years." All that matters is how they compared to the rest of the league. And if one is going to do an honest, objective comparison, one needs to look at the numbers holistically and not just pull out a few stats while omitting other key metrics.

I think Jones' best year was 2022. And that was hardly a great year. It was fine, but far from spectacular. At best it was league-average overall. I understand his efficiency metrics were above average, but his totals were way below average. The efficiency numbers were boosted by it being a simplistic offense that had him as a short pass-throwing game manager with the offense based on the running game. He was not asked to do much throwing the ball, and he didn't do much throwing the ball. He didn't make a lot of mistakes, so that is good, but it's relatively easy to not make a lot of mistakes when you're not being asked to make many risky throws.

His rookie season was worse than 2022 in my opinion. He turned the ball over way too much to be remotely effective. I get that some fans like to pretend fumbles don't matter and just want to isolate the other stats and brush the fumbles under the rug, but no serious/objective evaluator would ever do that.

All his other years were very, very poor in my opinion.

Just my two cents.

[LennG]

Hi GMO,

The Giants and DJ went 10-7-1 in 2022 and won a playoff game without Nabers.

They've added an excellent edge in Brian Burns, and now an elite WR.

Have you seen their upcoming schedule?

I think they can win 10-11 games this year going something like 10-7 or 11-6.

And once there in the playoffs anything can happen.

 I think many people also explained how I feel and the last post by Dave said it best. Yes, Jones had a decent year compared to many of the terrible years.
I'm sorry but fans (and I don't mean you specifically) keep telling us how Jones lacks certain things for a QB to be successful. True, but how many QBs in the league have a perfect system, great OL great WRs, and a good running game.
Anyone can succeed in those conditions. What separates the winners from the losers is that the good ones can overcome obstacles and still succeed. Jones is just not in that category. Everything needs to be perfect for him to have success and that is still not what the Giants offer. He simply cannot overcome certain things that other good QBs can. We have given him plenty of things now, so overall, I hope you are right, but I seriously doubt it. Jones is what Jones is, an average QB who can make certain throws in the right circumstances but when he is asked to do more, he cannot. That is why he succeeded in the years you mentioned. He wasn't asked to do more than he was able to, we got a year of lucky ounces and breaks and we won. His numbers, as far as league wise, were average at best, but compared to his numbers from other years, he was successful. Nabors might get him a few more yards and completions, but that is about all.

[AZGiantFan]

I was referring to a a snapshot they put up on tv pertaining to how many QBs Washington has picked in the past 10 years or so. There were a bunch of them. My point is Jones has had 5 years already as compared to Washington picking QB after QB in the draft.

We know what Jones is. I've heard excuse after excuse for the guy. Time is up. He now has a stud WR and all sorts of other weapons AND his Oline is pretty good. He has to learn from his mistakes - which by evidence of his continuing to take hits instead of throwing the ball away (or sliding) proves it.

His OL is NOT pretty good until they demonstrate it on the field.