Giants fans should be waking up happy this morning

[MightyGiants]

The people who are the happiest this AM are the people who still believe Jones is the future of this team. Those of us that think Jones is not the QB we need to be able to win know Nabers is a great talent but a great talent needs a good QB to help make his talents excel. Drafting a great WR before we have that talent at QB may well be Barkley II. His talents will be wasted for several years as we try to find a QB who can help him excel.

More like those that are happy, appreciate and understand that quarterbacks need support to develop and even just to function and here is what neutral Athletic writer ranked the Giants support system


6. New York Giants
Pass blocking: F
Run game: C
Weapons: D (potential F)
Play-caller: B
Defense: C

The Giants have Daniel Jones signed for another two seasons but there is buzz that they might make a move in the draft to get one of the top four quarterbacks. The biggest draw New York has is that head coach Brian Daboll and offensive coordinator Mike Kafka have shown they can piece together an offense with toothpicks and paperclips. The Giants surprised the league in 2022, finishing 10th in offensive DVOA, but their lack of overall talent especially on their offensive line caught up to them last season. Andrew Thomas is one of the best left tackles in the league but he can only block one rusher at a time. Jones missed significant time and the Giants finished 30th in offensive DVOA. The Giants' weapons cache is the worst in the league.

If you want to keep drafting QBs just to watch them crash and burn, ala the Jets, by all means let us not get any receiving weapons.

https://theathletic.com/5421402/2024/04/19/2024-nfl-draft-ranking-qb-friendliness/

[Philosophers]

I think we need to look at it this way.  Nabers was a top shelf addition, however, we need a Guard and RB.  That should complete the talent upgrade then it will be up to the new OL coach to fuse the OL into a good cohesive group.

After that, DJ will only have 1 year (next season) to either be the QB or next draft we will go into full bore draft a QB mode.  We could have gotten one this season albeit with some uncertainty, but instead, we drafted a very high end talent with high floor and a super high ceiling.  You can't fault the team for that.

[Bob In PA]

The people who are the happiest this AM are the people who still believe Jones is the future of this team. Those of us that think Jones is not the QB we need to be able to win know Nabers is a great talent but a great talent needs a good QB to help make his talents excel. Drafting a great WR before we have that talent at QB may well be Barkley II. His talents will be wasted for several years as we try to find a QB who can help him excel.

Lenn: Reasonable post. I get it. I'm one who believes Jones (if healthy) will get the job done this year, if for no other reason than to make Schoen's moves next year at this time as difficult as possible.  One more thing... with all the rookie QB's taken in the first round this year we may see some "unexpected" veteran QB's become available during the summer, so the Giants might be in the market for that option (if so, I hope it's not due to an injury to Jones or Lock). Bob

[Jolly Blue Giant]

JJ himself said he spent the most time with the Giants than any other team he interviewed with. That tells me two things:

1) Schoen and company did their due diligence on JJ.
2) Schoen and company did not feel, in all the time they spent with the kid, that he is what the Giants needed at #6.

I'm completely fine with that. I wanted a QB as well but I did not want to grab one just to grab one. I believe Schoen and Daboll wanted one as well. It just wasn't McCarthy.

I couldn't agree more Tim

Those who don't study history, are doomed to repeat it...and that includes NFL football

Every year a handful of QBs are drafted and a large portion of them fail at the NFL level, and some of them become good or average down the road. Every once in a while, one of them becomes a franchise type QB. The truth is, we don't know if one of these guys (or none of them) will develop into a "franchise" guy. So it ends up with most teams throwing what they have at the wall and hoping it sticks

Schoen and Daboll know exactly what they have in DJ - a smart 6'5", mobile QB with a good arm and a superb work ethic, along with exceptional character. I disagree with the plethora of pundits and fans who believe GMs are such bloated egotists that they "must have a QB they drafted". To think that Schoen is sitting at home thinking he must dump the QB who came with the team because "he's not mine", is silly

JJ McCarthy was a good QB at Michigan and had a high level coach and a very good surrounding cast. Drew Lock on the other hand, is taller than McCarthy and has very similar traits, and played for Missouri with a much less talented supporting cast. While McCarthy threw 49 TDs in three years, Lock threw 99 in four years. My point: "is McCarthy a significant upgrade over DJ, or more similar to Lock?" My answer: "I don't know...time will tell". This is the kind of thing Schoen had to ponder. Get it wrong and it sets the franchise back years

Yesterday, I posted a comparison chart of six opinions from respected draft analysts/services, and how they ranked the top 20 players. Three of them didn't even have McCarthy listed in the top 20, and only one (Great Blue North) had him ranked as high as 10. Schoen and coaches spent more time with McCarthy than any other player, yet chose to not take him at no.6...that has to mean something

I hope McCarthy does well in the NFL...along with the other QBs, but history has proven that most don't become franchise QBs - some of them have great starts, then flame out (Carson Wentz, Robert Griffen III, etc), others go on to become average and tend to be traded around the league during their careers. Personally, I don't think McCarthy is this year's "jackpot" pick to be a franchise guy. I could be wrong, but history is on my side

[Gmo11]

Tim,

Did you expect Jones to be somewhere other than at the bottom of the list for deep throws when he had historically bad protection and poor receivers?  That is why I answered a question with a question.  The subtext of your question is that Jones should be held responsible for the historically bad support he received last season.

He should be held responsible for his own play though.  Which at times feels like doesn't happen with all the excuse making.  During any given day, even with an awful OL, there will be plays available to  be made.  Maybe not as many as there could be or even should be but there are some.  Last season he made damn near none of those plays save the Arizona 2nd half.  Which let's also not just pretend the 1st half of that game didn't happen. 

But therein lies precisely the problem with Jones.  He'll give you that Arizona 2nd half every once in a while.  And you'll be fooled into thinking "Hey look this guy has it!" He fooled the Giants front office after one season of simply not horrific football.  But instead of building on that performance he takes 3 steps backwards and has to start all over.  It's the very definition of QB hell.  He's not bad enough to get you into the top 3 so you can actually draft his replacement but he's not good enough to win anything substantial with.

If he could make those plays that present themselves, even in losses, we would be more inclined to say well they lost but that really wasn't his fault.  He made the plays he had to make they just didn't give him enough of them to actually win the game.  The problem a lot of us have is he rarely makes the plays he has, and last year in particular he was just dumping it off at an alarming rate.

[UncannyGfan]

Maybe in a year or two they sign a free agent QB whom gets a second wind with Thomas at OLT and Nabers at WR? 

I would have liked for a franchise QB to fall to them but it didn't happen and getting a blue chip WR might end up working out better over the next few seasons.

I think Jones is at his best as a duel running threat, so after the neck injuries, ACL, and Barkley leaving, I'm pretty skeptical over his prospects next season but the Giants have a few really really good players at key positions (Dex, Banks, Thomas, Nabers) so they have potential to turn things around.  I'm not sold on Daball either so maybe not next year, but some day. 

[B1GBLUE]

Team building is about increasing the team's overall talent level, ideally at key positions.  It's not about just one player, even QB.

totally agree. you need star and firepower. nabers gives us that type of juice. he is a PLAYMAYKER. regardless of who the qb is this guy will produce.

[Jclayton92]

It's still one player.

Wasn't Jones near the bottom of the stat sheet in throws over 20 yards? How exactly is that an echo chamber when the numbers (and watching eyes) bear it out?

He only threw it twice beyond 20 yards before Thanksgiving in 2022, his best "ever" season.

I don't think it's unrealistic to think Lock starts the season and remains the Qb so the Giants/Daboll at minimum can see what they have on offense and have a competent one to compliment a solid defense. They can't do that properly with Jones on the field.

[sooners56]

I'd be a lot more happy if Barkley were still the RB. The Giants offense has been bad, but it is absolutely atrocious when Barkley isn't playing.

[TONKA56]

More like those that are happy, appreciate and understand that quarterbacks need support to develop and even just to function and here is what neutral Athletic writer ranked the Giants support system


6. New York Giants
Pass blocking: F
Run game: C
Weapons: D (potential F)
Play-caller: B
Defense: C

The Giants have Daniel Jones signed for another two seasons but there is buzz that they might make a move in the draft to get one of the top four quarterbacks. The biggest draw New York has is that head coach Brian Daboll and offensive coordinator Mike Kafka have shown they can piece together an offense with toothpicks and paperclips. The Giants surprised the league in 2022, finishing 10th in offensive DVOA, but their lack of overall talent especially on their offensive line caught up to them last season. Andrew Thomas is one of the best left tackles in the league but he can only block one rusher at a time. Jones missed significant time and the Giants finished 30th in offensive DVOA. The Giants' weapons cache is the worst in the league.

If you want to keep drafting QBs just to watch them crash and burn, ala the Jets, by all means let us not get any receiving weapons.

https://theathletic.com/5421402/2024/04/19/2024-nfl-draft-ranking-qb-friendliness/

The only flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that when your team is ready, you just dial 1-800-quarterback and get one. Usually the opportunity to get one doesn't present at the perfect time. That's why middle of the road teams end up with guys like Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kirk Cousins, and washed up Brett Favre. 

[B1GBLUE]

We were a bad team before we picked Nabers. We are still a bad team after the pick. We are a battered, rusting heap with an engine operating at half power (DJ), two good tires (AT, Dex), a nice stereo pass rush duo and an enhanced selection of shiny WR hood ornaments.

I am not sure there is much to be happy about as we are still a long way from competing. Getting another good player is nice but hardly cause for bunting and a parade.

not entirely wrong but very bleak perspective. you take elite playmakers when you can get them. this isnt barkley at 2 (position value argument). WR are very high positional value, and we got a VERY GOOD one. some say the best playmaker in the whole draft.

Sorry but JJ is a late 1st, 2nd round guy at best. maybe he'll wind up being really good. but getting him NOW also would not have moved the needle, as he would be sitting for at least a year anyway. We reinforced the oline (whether it works or not remains to be seen), and got dj a legit weapon. Things he has NEVER had. Let's see what happens with it. Either way, whether we took a qb this year or next year, they need a legit offensive weapon, and now we got one.

[MightyGiants]

He should be held responsible for his own play though.  Which at times feels like doesn't happen with all the excuse making.

I have to confess that when I read comments like this, I feel like people have become emotionally invested in DJ's outcome.  Are you suggesting that protection and receiving don't matter and that a good QB can magically put up big numbers?  That is clearly what the term "excuse making" suggests.  An impartial observer would refer to what you call "excuse making" as a reasoned appreciation that a QB's performance isn't in a vacuum.  The support a QB receives in terms of coaching, protection, and receiving weapons impacts both their play and their development.  It sure seems like your "feelings" are rather perjurative to those who try to have a deeper appreciation of the game.

[MightyGiants]

The only flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that when your team is ready, you just dial 1-800-quarterback and get one. Usually the opportunity to get one doesn't present at the perfect time. That's why middle of the road teams end up with guys like Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kirk Cousins, and washed up Brett Favre.

On the other side of that coin you have teams like the Eagles, 49ers, and the Cowboys who parlayed talented rosters and QB support into finding their franchise QBs in rounds other than the first one.

[uconnjack8]

Even if you don't think DJ is the guy, I don't see why drafting a worthy WR at 6 is something to fret over. 

I get people want a different QB.  Truly elite QBs are rare, so if we assume the Giants upgrade DJ with a QB who is not in that category, they will need top tier talent around him. 

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/PFF_Giants/status/1783864854643671157