Baseball rules

[LennG]

 I was going to put this on the Baseball forum, but no one will see it, so I thought all you junior umpires out there might like something to tickle your knowledge bone.

I have had several very interesting situations this season. I only do High School baseball these days and my time working behind the plate has come to an end so I mostly work the bases.

If people are interested I'll post a few interesting situations that came up and see if anyone can make the correct call.

Yesterday game

Inning makes no difference.
Runner on 1st base, ONE out, batter has a 3-2 count on him.
Runner on 1st is off with the pitch. Batter swings at a ball in the dirt and misses. He starts running to 1st base.
The ball hits off the catcher's shin guard and goes into the dugout. The runner who was on 1st base was already around 2nd base when the ball went into the dugout.

Question
is the batter out or safe at 1st?
Where does the runner, who was on 1st, end up (scores, 3rd base, 2nd base, or back on 1st base)?
And if you have any explanation as to why you answered the way you did.

[Ed Vette]

Batter is safe at first because it's the catcher's responsibility to catch the ball and throw tue runner out at FB but it becomes a dead ball so the  base runner can only advance to Second Base. Now Base Runners at first and second.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Batter is safe at first because it's the catcher's responsibility to catch the ball and throw tue runner out at FB but it becomes a dead ball so the  base runner can only advance to Second Base. Now Base Runners at first and second.

I agree; however, if he had already stolen 2nd base, he would be awarded 3rd. Most likely though, he had yet to reach 2nd with the passed ball, so he'd probably be forced back to 2nd. Truth is, I don't know. I played baseball in H.S. and in college, and I know that I am always trying to figure out a rule when something happens that's out of the ordinary. Hell, even professional umps in MLB have to gather together to figure out a rule now and then

[Sem]

I have a question first. Where was the base runner at the point the third strike was mishandled by the catcher?

[LennG]

I have a question first. Where was the base runner at the point the third strike was mishandled by the catcher?

Runner had yet to get to 2nd base

[LennG]

Hint


  The key to this, and in many situations, is the position of the runners/or batter at the time of the pitch.

[GIANTS1]

Batter is out. First base was occupied. I would put runner at 3rd.

[Sem]

My guess...
Batter is out. Runner back to first.
Batter struck out and even though the catcher didn't handle the third strike first base was occupied with less than two outs. Because of the dead ball happening the play is called dead before the baserunner established 2nd base so he has to go back to the base he had established when the dead ball was called.

[LennG]

OK, all good tries. So here is the ruling.

Makes no difference that the runner was off on the pitch, as I said, it is his position At the Time Of the Pitch, which means he was on 1st base. Since with 1 out and first base occupied, the batter is out no matter what the catcher does with the ball. As long as the batter swung at the 3rd strike, he is automatically out.

As for the runner, the rule of thumb is 1 base from the mound and 2 bases from the field if a ball goes into dead area. I added that the runner was beyond 2nd base when the ball went dead, but again it is his position At the Time of the Pitch, which was 1st base. Since the catcher didn't deliberately kick the ball into the dugout, the runner is entitled to ONE base and he will be on 2nd base and now it is 2 out.

[LennG]

 Let's expand on your knowledge now and give you another example.

Simple one now

The batter gets a single and makes a wide turn around 1st base. The defense sees this and tries to throw behind the runner in an attempt to get him going back to the base.  With the runner diving back to 1st base, the ball gets away from the 1st baseman and into dead territory.

Where do we put the runner?

[Sem]

3rd base. The runner had already reached 1st base safely prior to the defense throwing behind him. It doesn't matter if he was then diving back to 1st. One from the mound and two from the field.

[LennG]

3rd base. The runner had already reached 1st base safely prior to the defense throwing behind him. It doesn't matter if he was then diving back to 1st. One from the mound and two from the field.

Excellent Seve. I have a game Monday, want to join me?

    

[LennG]

 Let's get another that happened just the other day

Batter has a 2-2 count. Pitcher throws a curve ball which bounces and hits the batter. BUT, he swung at the ball  (and missed).

Is he out, awarded 1st base or is it now a 3-2 count?

[Sem]

Excellent Seve. I have a game Monday, want to join me?

    

LOL!! I got the first question wrong, so I'm only .500
If I was batting that's excellent, but if I were umpiring that percentage would get me the heave-ho.

[Sem]

Let's get another that happened just the other day

Batter has a 2-2 count. Pitcher throws a curve ball which bounces and hits the batter. BUT, he swung at the ball  (and missed).

Is he out, awarded 1st base or is it now a 3-2 count?

He strikes out. The swing supersedes the HBP.
But this question makes me ask....since the ball hit the dirt prior to the swing does the catcher have to tag the batter out? You know what I'm asking? The whole dropped third strike set of rules.