Baseball rules

[GIANTS1]

im going to say live ball with no confidence. after some research i cheated. the ball should be dead. good question again Len

[LennG]

Since both of us, the umpires had never really seen a play like that, we got together and used our best judgment and knowledge to make the call.

Since the rulebook says that if any pitched ball strikes the batter, it is a dead ball, regardless if it hits the ground first, that is what we used to make the ruling. The batter swinging at it makes no difference.
(If a better, say, squares to bunt and he offers at the pitch and in doing so, the pitch hits him, a strike is called as he did offer at the ball, and being hit has no relevance except making the ball dead)

Since it is now a dead ball, the runner had to return to 1st base, as that was his position at the time of the pitch.

[Sem]

Since both of us, the umpires had never really seen a play like that, we got together and used our best judgment and knowledge to make the call.

Since the rulebook says that if any pitched ball strikes the batter, it is a dead ball, regardless if it hits the ground first, that is what we used to make the ruling. The batter swinging at it makes no difference.
(If a better, say, squares to bunt and he offers at the pitch and in doing so, the pitch hits him, a strike is called as he did offer at the ball, and being hit has no relevance except making the ball dead)

Since it is now a dead ball, the runner had to return to 1st base, as that was his position at the time of the pitch.

Len, can you explain the difference in this scenario vs. your first example (post #1 in this thread)? In both instances there was a runner on 1st base "at the time of the pitch." Also in both instances the runner on base was going with the pitch. Yet in the first instance the runner was awarded 2nd base as a result of the dead ball, but in this second instance the runner had to go back to 1st base as a result of the dead ball. I'm a bit confused.

[LennG]

As best as I can.

In the first scenario, the ball went into dead area as a result of the defense. (Pitcher/catcher). The runner, who was on base is awarded one base regardless if he was running on the pitch. It is like any ball, on any play, going into dead area, if there are runners on, there have to be bases awarded. In this instance, the runner WAS going on the pitch, so he should not be penalized because the ball went into dead area not assisted by any offensive player.

In the second instance, the dead ball was called because it hit another offensive player and the defense wasn't able to even try to make a play on it. Because the defense (catcher) couldn't even attempt a play because of the dead ball, the defense shouldn't be penalized, even if it wasn't intentional. The runner has to go back.

It may sound complicated, but the baseball rulebook lists the cases when the ball is dead immediately and there are only a few--Hit batter, foul ball, ball going into dead area,  ball hits a runner in the field of play, ball hits an umpire in the infield. There might be one or two more but most times it is called a delayed dead ball so it gives the defense, or offense a chance to complete a play.  Even most balks nowadays are a delayed dead ball. Whenever there is a delayed dead ball, as an umpire, you let the play, play out and then award whatever penalty or award bases as so directed.
I am off to a game now, if you need further explanation I will try to explain it more clearly.

[Sem]

Thanks Len. That actually makes sense to me.

[LennG]

 Here is today's question of the day.

1 out and a runner on 1st base

The runner is stealing on the pitch. The batter trying to protect the runner, swings and misses the pitch but his momentum carries him over home plate and sort of inhibits the catcher's throw to 2nd. The runner is safe at second.

Is this legal and play continues?

a---Batter stays up and the runner stays at 2nd as the batter's action wasn't intentional
b--- Batter stays at bat but the runner has to return to 1st base.
c--- Batter is out for interfering with the catcher's throw but the runner stays at 2nd
d---Batter is out for interfering with the catcher's throw and runner returns to 1st.
e-- it's a do-over

[Sem]

I'll take a stab at it. First of all, I think the runner has to go back to 1st base. I don't know what, if anything, happens to the batter. So I think it's either B or D. But I'll take a guess, the batter is called out for interference, runner back to 1st.

[GIANTS1]

I'm going with D

[LennG]

Both of you are correct with D.

In any offensive interference, the offensive team cannot gain or benefit from it, so there is no way the runner can advance, he has to go back. Since the batter caused the interference, no matter whether intentional or not, there has to be a penalty for the interference. In this case, he is declared out, and, as I said, the runner goes back.

[LennG]

 If you guys are still interested here is one that happens a lot more than you might think. It is a bit harder.

Once again, runner on 1st with one out.

Batter hits a ground ball to the 2nd baseman. The runner is running from 1st to 2nd in the basepath. The fielder in an attempt to field the grounder is in the basepath and the runner makes contact with him.

a-- runner is out and batter is awarded 1st base
b-- runner is out and batter is also out
c-- runner is safe at 2nd as he never went out of his baseline and batter is on 1st base
d---runner is awarded 3rd base as he was interfered with and gets an awarded base.Batter stays at 1st. 
e-- it's a do-over

[Sem]

I know the fielder has the right to  make the play, the base runner must avoid contacting him. In this case the base runner is automatically called out. I'm pretty sure the batter gets first base though, I don't think there can be two outs called on this play as you described it. So, my answer is A.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

A completely different scenario. Last night, Nestor Cortez was called for an "illegal pitch" because he varied from his trademark exaggerated motion meant to disrupt the hitter's timing, by pitching "quickly". His entire repertoire is based on keeping a batter off balance

Regardless, this brought out Boone from the dugout to get an explanation and to share a few profanities. The ump (Laz Diaz) has made a lot of controversial calls that fans from other teams complain about

This morning in the NY news, it's a discussion and most believe it is not illegal to "quick pitch", simply because a pitcher winds up like a normal pitcher when he has a reputation of a herky-jerky, in-windup-hitch, etc. Thoughts?

[Sem]

I watched the game last night, and saw that play, Ric. I never did hear the actual official explanation, though I didn't look around for it. My assumption last night after seeing several replays, not shown in this short clip, is that during his pitching motion his left foot briefly lost contact with the pitching rubber, a question O'Neill also asked.

[LennG]

I know the fielder has the right to  make the play, the base runner must avoid contacting him. In this case the base runner is automatically called out. I'm pretty sure the batter gets first base though, I don't think there can be two outs called on this play as you described it. So, my answer is A.

Excellent Steve. Yes, the fielder always has the right of way to make the play and it is the responsibility of the runner to avoid contact or even getting in his way. We had this play TWICE today, both times with bases loaded, and both times the ball hit to short and the runner basically got in the shortstop's way. Both times they were called out and the runner who was on 3rd, who came home on the play, had to go back to 3rd. As I said before, the offensive team cannot benefit from a foul on their end. They caused the interference so the runner has to go back. The batter is credited with 1st base and since he has to go to 1st, the runner who was son 1st goes to second.

There is a scenario where the umpire seeing that the runner intentionally interfered with a fielder CAN call a double play, with the runner out and the batter also out. It is rare as you would have to anticipate that the ground ball would have been a DP, and the runner did what he could to stop it. It is a legitimate call though.

[LennG]

 A quick pitch is illegal and considered an illegal pitch.  As Steve said, I didn't see what had happened in the video. To be honest, I have seen pitchers use a very deliberate motion to the plate and then vary it with a quicker motion. I see nothing wrong with that. The idea is to keep the batter off balance.
A quick pitch is usually when a pitcher gets the ball, immediately steps on the rubber, and pitches really before the batter gets set. You see this a lot when a pitcher, while in the set position with a man on 1st, will step off the rubber and immediately step back on and pitch. The runner and the batter will usually relax a bit when they see the pitcher step off and for him to immediately step back on and pitch, is and should be illegal. A quick pitch, with runners on, is a balk. If there is no one on it is called a ball.

Any illegal pitch is a balk with runners on and a ball with no one on.

If the pitcher lost contact with the rubber, I would think a base umpire would call that as it would be almost impossible for the plate man to see that.