WW2 Admirals

[Trench]

It would take a book to tell all his stories. He was on the battleship only during the Korean War. He lied his age when he was 16 in order to "get in the war before it was over" during WWII. His two older brothers were already in. His closest brother, Glenn, was in the 10th Mountain Division and was killed during the Battle of Po Valley in the Apennines Mountains of Italy. He was killed by mortar fire on the same day and next to the mountain where Sen. Bob Dole was wounded. Glenn's story: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136681952/glenn-lee-chrysler

My Dad's other brother, Bob, was a Sgt (2nd Platoon, Company D, 134th Infantry Regiment, of the 35th Infantry Division), and partook in the Normandy Invasion and marched all the way from France to Germany before getting shot in the leg while marching through the streets of Geldern, Germany. While the rest of his unit took cover, he stood his ground and manned a machine gun, pinning down the shooters until his unit was able to come in from behind and take them out. He refused to go for medical help and marched (limped) all the way to Berlin. He died several years ago with the bullet still in his leg. You could paper a wall with all the citations and honors he was given. He marched back across Europe (still wounded) and boarded the Queen Mary for his trip home



The Queen Mary returning US troops back home to America...not exactly a comfortable pleasure voyage home



My Uncle Glenn and Uncle Bob


During WWII, my dad was stationed in the Pacific arena as a member of the SeaBees on the Island of New Caledonia. After Japan capitulated, my father was stationed in a port near Nagasaki for a year. He used to drive officers to the smoldering ruins of Nagasaki to tour the damage. We used to joke with our dad that the reason all his sons were bald was because of his walking around the radioactive ruins of the city. One of the things I'm proudest of for my father, was that after he was discharged, he went back to high school and graduated at 20 yrs old. A lot of my friends had fathers who quit school to join the war, but I only know of one who returned to finish his education - my dad. After high school, he went to Cornell to earn a certification in milk analysis. He then went to farms around NYS to train farmers how to test and graph various components of milk. While doing that, the Korean War broke out, and he immediately signed back up, this time as a Petty Officer/Boatswain Mate on the USS New Jersey. While the ship was being refitted in the Brooklyn shipyard, my father would travel home by train to Binghamton on weekends, and that is when he met my mother. They married in November 1950 just before he took off for the next year in Korea. Interestingly, the ship's mast and structure had to be removed for the ship to go under the Brooklyn Bridge. The parts were shipped to Virginia Beach to reattach before heading to Korea, which took a couple of weeks. Then a stop at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba for supplies, then through the Panama Canal, and off to war. The ship was so large, there were only inches of clearance on its sides as it went through the locks. So once they reached the Pacific, the sailors had to hang off the sides with ropes to repaint that sides of the ship

Anyway, there's way too many stories in my family to do it justice on this site. On my mother's side, she only had one member of the family in the war - the only male of fighting age - her cousin. My grandmother and mother (a teenager at the time) used to make homemade candy and cookies and send them to him. They wrote letters back and forth for the duration. His name was "Kenny" and he was a member of the paratroop battalion known as "Easy Company". He was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. His story can be found in https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56063971/kenneth-jay-webb

Our "Wall of Fame" at my parent's home

the picture on the right with the stars border was hand signed by Harry S. Truman


the small shadow box underneath the painting of the New Jersey contains a piece of the original deck of the New Jersey. My son (who was a combat medic in Iraq) purchased it when he and I toured the New Jersey with my dad

Oh my, am I ever so glad to have started this thread. Thank you for sharing all this. It is simply remarkable. God bless them all.

[MightyGiants]

I always enjoy this speculation.   One-on-one (admittedly unrealistic for a WW2 naval battle), who would have won the USS New Jersey or the IJN Yamato?

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I always enjoy this speculation.  One-on-one (admittedly unrealistic for a WW2 naval battle), who would have won the USS New Jersey or the IJN Yamato?

In a straight out one-on-one, head-to-head battle, the Yamato would beat the New Jersey. The Yamato was more powerful (had 18" cannons) and had stronger hull defense (much thicker steel skin) that could withstand more hits. Fortunately, that scenario never happened. The Yamato was sunk (along with almost the entirety of its crew) by US air superiority. The US aerial assault dropped thousand-pound bombs from the air onto the ship, destroying their front 18" cannons and superstructure...but the real damage was done by torpedo bombers from the air, which blew the hell out of Yamato's hull

Winner in your scenario: Yamato

Versus the German Bismarck, the New Jersey would have made short work out of destroying it, but of course, the Bismark was sunk (May '41) by the British and Polish navies before the US joined WWII. The New Jersey was launched (Dec '42), more than a year after the Bismarck was at the bottom of the sea

Winner in that scenario: New Jersey

Torpedo bombers were the biggest threat and raised the biggest alarm to all ships in WWII. America was not the only country that had them as all the other countries, including Japan, had them. In fact, that was how the Japanese sunk the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor



Advantage the Iowa Class battleships (New Jersey, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) had over other battleships were that they were the longest and thinnest of the major battleships of the world, hence faster. Also, US battleships were purposely engineered with that specific width so they could cross the Panama Canal (US territory at that time) and could move quickly between the Pacific and the Atlantic when necessary saving weeks of sea time and tons of refueling requirements



Bottom line: Air and underwater superiority made Battleships obsolete. Before the rise of missiles, planes, and nuclear subs...battleships were king of the sea - the power symbol of sea warfare and land bombardment. They were called "Dreadnoughts" by all sailors for a reason...they brought "dread" to surface warfare on the high seas. No other ship wanted to deal with them in battle

[MightyGiants]

In a straight out one-on-one, head-to-head battle, the Yamato would beat the New Jersey. The Yamato was more powerful (had 18" cannons) and had stronger hull defense (much thicker steel skin) that could withstand more hits. Fortunately, that scenario never happened. The Yamato was sunk (along with almost the entirety of its crew) by US air superiority. The US aerial assault dropped thousand-pound bombs from the air onto the ship, destroying their front 18" cannons and superstructure...but the real damage was done by torpedo bombers from the air, which blew the hell out of Yamato's hull

Winner in your scenario: Yamato

Versus the German Bismarck, the New Jersey would have made short work out of destroying it, but of course, the Bismark was sunk (May '41) by the British and Polish navies before the US joined WWII. The New Jersey was launched (Dec '42), more than a year after the Bismarck was at the bottom of the sea

Winner in that scenario: New Jersey

Torpedo bombers were the biggest threat and raised the biggest alarm to all ships in WWII. America was not the only country that had them as all the other countries, including Japan, had them. In fact, that was how the Japanese sunk the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor



Advantage the Iowa Class battleships (New Jersey, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) had over other battleships were that they were the longest and thinnest of the major battleships of the world, hence faster. Also, US battleships were purposely engineered with that specific width so they could cross the Panama Canal (US territory at that time) and could move quickly between the Pacific and the Atlantic when necessary saving weeks of sea time and tons of refueling requirements



Bottom line: Air and underwater superiority made Battleships obsolete. Before the rise of missiles, planes, and nuclear subs...battleships were king of the sea - the power symbol of sea warfare and land bombardment. They were called "Dreadnoughts" by all sailors for a reason...they brought "dread" to surface warfare on the high seas. No other ship wanted to deal with them in battle

I am not so sure who would win.  The Yamato had bigger guns and thicker armor (but lower-quality armor).  The New Jersey had superior speed (5 knots faster), radar-guided firing (with computerized firing solutions), and I suspect a faster rate of fire.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I am not so sure who would win.  The Yamato had bigger guns and thicker armor (but lower-quality armor).  The New Jersey had superior speed (5 knots faster), radar-guided firing (with computerized firing solutions), and I suspect a faster rate of fire.

The computerized firing was probably not available in WWII. Far more sophisticated than the days of pirate ships, but pretty much the same type of warfare as the days of pirates. The New Jersey loaded cannons with black powder (albeit - an incredibly larger amount), and a spearheaded (more accurate because of rifling in the barrels) cannonballs

Radar was pretty crude and could only detect sounds (usually planes) before the planes were seen. Submarines had a crude model of sonar towards the end of WWII, but it could only detect other submarines, torpedoes, or underwater mines less than a couple thousand yards...which was too late if a torpedo was coming directly at the sub. Sonar was not yet used by top water ships. Battleships were not equipped with sonar during WWII or Korea

Although they had a type of mechanical "computer", what they really had were knobs and gauges, to set speed, target range/distance, etc. To calculate moving targets during battle, sailors used slide rulers (if you can remember them...LOL). I still have my old slide rule that I used before the first digital calculator came out that could help me out when using trig. Pain in the ass to use is an understatement. I bring it out to show my grandkids and they are unimpressed. Computers in that day (WWII/Korea) were advanced mechanical renditions of the old Chinese abacuses, and slide rulers were America's answer to a scientific calculator



Ships weaponry and advanced technology was pretty crude during WWII and Korea. Black powder cannons and eyesight was used over everything, compared to today

[MightyGiants]

The computerized firing was probably not available in WWII. Far more sophisticated than the days of pirate ships, but pretty much the same type of warfare as the days of pirates. The New Jersey loaded cannons with black powder (albeit - an incredibly larger amount), and a spearheaded (more accurate because of rifling in the barrels) cannonballs

Radar was pretty crude and could only detect sounds (usually planes) before the planes were seen. Submarines had a crude model of sonar towards the end of WWII, but it could only detect other submarines, torpedoes, or underwater mines less than a couple thousand yards...which was too late if a torpedo was coming directly at the sub. Sonar was not yet used by top water ships. Battleships were not equipped with sonar during WWII or Korea

Although they had a type of mechanical "computer", what they really had were knobs and gauges, to set speed, target range/distance, etc. To calculate moving targets during battle, sailors used slide rulers (if you can remember them...LOL). I still have my old slide rule that I used before the first digital calculator came out that could help me out when using trig. Pain in the ass to use is an understatement. I bring it out to show my grandkids and they are unimpressed. Computers in that day (WWII/Korea) were advanced mechanical renditions of the old Chinese abacuses, and slide rulers were America's answer to a scientific calculator



Ships weaponry and advanced technology was pretty crude during WWII and Korea. Black powder cannons and eyesight was used over everything, compared to today

Actually, the battleships did have computers.  They were mechanical and analogue but they worked rather well

The Mark 8 fire control computer in the aft secondary battery plotting room of the battleship USS IOWA

Here is a good rating of both optical as well as radar-guided fire control

http://www.combinedfleet.com/b_fire.htm

Here is a good article of one of the earlier fire control computers


http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-056.php

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Wow...you've done your research, Rich. I'm impressed 

[MightyGiants]

Wow...you've done your research, Rich. I'm impressed 

I am a huge naval history buff.  I subscribe to Naval History (I am a member of the Naval Institute).  I have watched many of the videos on the two channels I posted.  I have watched countless hours of naval documentaries, and I have more than my fair share of naval books.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I am a huge naval history buff.  I subscribe to Naval History (I am a member of the Naval Institute).  I have watched many of the videos on the two channels I posted.  I have watched countless hours of naval documentaries, and I have more than my fair share of naval books.

Well...you are well-informed in this subject, that's for sure. What I wouldn't do to be able to talk to my father and ask him questions that I now have. I always got a kick out of watching him blow his boatswain whistle, where he'd cup his hands around it and control the screech by opening and closing his hand. He also amazed me when showing me how to tie knots. Farmers in the area used to bring him ropes that he would splice together for them. But as far as calculating distance and adjusting for pitch, roll, and yaw...he never talked about, so I doubt he was involved in the mathematics needed to make the calculations - in fact, I'm sure of it. All I know is that he used to use binoculars from atop the mast and to radio down the results of the hits after the 16" guns were fired

As a mathematician myself, I find it all very intriguing. I've always been impressed with those who calculate the earth's rotation when sending rockets to the moon as the entire trip is anything but static. Anyway, thanks for sharing the videos. I'm old, but still learning...which I think is a good thing for keeping a brain in thinking shape

As a hindnote, you would've made a good sailor. Did you ever consider joining the Navy or did your interest come later in life?

[MightyGiants]

Well...you are well-informed in this subject, that's for sure. What I wouldn't do to be able to talk to my father and ask him questions that I now have. I always got a kick out of watching him blow his boatswain whistle, where he'd cup his hands around it and control the screech by opening and closing his hand. He also amazed me when showing me how to tie knots. Farmers in the area used to bring him ropes that he would splice together for them. But as far as calculating distance and adjusting for pitch, roll, and yaw...he never talked about, so I doubt he was involved in the mathematics needed to make the calculations - in fact, I'm sure of it. All I know is that he used to use binoculars from atop the mast and to radio down the results of the hits after the 16" guns were fired

As a mathematician myself, I find it all very intriguing. I've always been impressed with those who calculate the earth's rotation when sending rockets to the moon as the entire trip is anything but static. Anyway, thanks for sharing the videos. I'm old, but still learning...which I think is a good thing for keeping a brain in thinking shape

As a hindnote, you would've made a good sailor. Did you ever consider joining the Navy or did your interest come later in life?

I actually stopped at the naval recruiting station when I was in HS.  I was considering going to Stevens Institute and I could get a full ride scholarship if I studied to be a nuclear engineer.  My mother found out and didn't want me to.  Then I got a full scholarship to Cooper Union.   Sometimes I wonder about paths not taken.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I actually stopped at the naval recruiting station when I was in HS.  I was considering going to Stevens Institute and I could get a full ride scholarship if I studied to be a nuclear engineer.  My mother found out and didn't want me to.  Then I got a full scholarship to Cooper Union.  Sometimes I wonder about paths not taken.

The nice thing about going into college first, is that you start out your military career in the officer ranks right out of the gate. Any college that offers ROTC will also pay for most of your education. As a nuclear engineer, you would have started out as a 2nd Lieutenant, which is a great springboard for a career outside the Navy, and even better if you had made the Navy your career. 20 years in the Navy and you get full pension benefits to boot. Sill in your 40's, you can start another career while banking 40% of your previous salary courtesy of Uncle Sam. A nice route to take

As a teen planning on joining the Navy, I always loved the Navy's uniforms...especially the dress whites. I too often wonder if I had taken a different path. But not much I can do about it now

Here's a recent ROTC graduate as a 2nd LT with a single bar

[Philosophers]

All good but trusting Ray Spruance, a destroyer captain to command the carrier fleet at Midway was a bold, risky move but they trusted his ability to choose where and how to position ships.  Huge reason for the victory at Midway

[Jolly Blue Giant]

A picture to put the size of the battleship in perspective. This is the USS Wisconsin, one of the four "Iowa-Class" Battleships (Iowa ["Big Stick"], Missouri ["Mighty Mo"], New Jersey ["Big J" or "Black Dragon"], and Wisconsin ["Big Whiskey"]). It is docked in Nauticus, a nautical museum located on the downtown waterfront in Norfolk, Virginia

Dimensions of Iowa-class battleships: 887.7 feet long (basically, 3 football fields), 109 feet wide, and 60,000 tons with a full load of armament and nearly 2000 sailors/officers

[LennG]

 I have toured the Wisconsin and the Missouri. I believe the Wisconsin is in Norfolk, VA. I toured with a former sailor who served on her. Very interesting stuff. I remember he mentioned it took about 14 seconds for the 'big guns' to rotate 90 degrees and they could hit a target 26 miles away with almost pinpoint accuracy.

As we know, the Missouri is docked in Pearl Harbor and the tour for that is excellent.