Three WRs left today’s practice with injuries:

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/giantinsider/status/1800622913277796506?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

[MightyGiants]

Crack medical staff Ronnie put together


Neal has been rehabbing from surgery to repair a small fracture in his left ankle, which was originally diagnosed as a sprain. He didn't play the final eight games of the 2023 season.

[DaveBrown74]

Can't wait to read people say it is Ronnie Barnes fault

Nobody said that and nobody will.

I think when your team is consistently the most (or among the very most) injured teams in the entire league every year for an incredibly long sample size, not only is it reasonable to question the job the head trainer is doing, but it is decidedly unreasonable to refuse to question him (or to mock those who do).

[kartanoman]

Nobody said that and nobody will.

I think when your team is consistently the most (or among the very most) injured teams in the entire league every year for an incredibly long sample size, not only is it reasonable to question the job the head trainer is doing, but it is decidedly unreasonable to refuse to question him (or to mock those who do).

I think the finger-pointing game is really what folks are saying is non-value added here, and that if you want root cause, you analyze the data and, even before that, you develop the problem statement so you are attempting to correct and prevent the right problem which is driving the undesired outcomes.

Again, this is where team data, NFL data, metrics which matter and good old fashioned root cause analysis are preferred tools to drive down to the root cause or, at a minimum identify the direct causes of the issues we are attempting to solve.

If insanity does reign as law of the land in the Medical organization, which Dr. Barnes heads, then he should be able to systematically account for that and why staffing and process improvements have not driven systematic improvement. It's a fair question deserving of a fair answer.

Instead of finger pointing, just ask that question. The response will tell you everything you need to know.

But, to be fair, of the three WR, how many are realistically going to make the roster this year? Perhaps part of the answer lies in their durability?

Peace!

[spiderblue43]

Ronnie also signs off on the health of players aquired, like Darren Waller

Ouch.

[spiderblue43]

Barnes is a Mara untouchable. That's all you need to know.

[uconnjack8]

Ronnie also signs off on the health of players aquired, like Darren Waller

Signs off on the health of the player at the time of the signing.  I think Schoen and Daboll were well aware of previous injuries and understood the risks.  I don't think the medical staff can veto a signing (or trade) if the player passes the physical.  They and/or analytics guys can give probabilities of further injury I would think, but aside from that player not passing the physical, I don't think he has the authority to deny a player the GM wants.

I get the scrutiny, but I dont think something like Schoen trading for a guy with a huge injury history is his fault.  The physical is after the trade.  If he passes the trade goes through. 

[Doc16LT56]

I think the finger-pointing game is really what folks are saying is non-value added here, and that if you want root cause, you analyze the data and, even before that, you develop the problem statement so you are attempting to correct and prevent the right problem which is driving the undesired outcomes.

Again, this is where team data, NFL data, metrics which matter and good old fashioned root cause analysis are preferred tools to drive down to the root cause or, at a minimum identify the direct causes of the issues we are attempting to solve.

If insanity does reign as law of the land in the Medical organization, which Dr. Barnes heads, then he should be able to systematically account for that and why staffing and process improvements have not driven systematic improvement. It's a fair question deserving of a fair answer.

Instead of finger pointing, just ask that question. The response will tell you everything you need to know.

But, to be fair, of the three WR, how many are realistically going to make the roster this year? Perhaps part of the answer lies in their durability?

Peace!

I don't think anyone is interested in finger pointing for the sake of finger pointing. They're saying it's Barnes' job to make sure the analysis is consistently being done and root causes identified and mitigated. If that's not his job, then whose job is it? So, he either isn't doing that part of the job or he isn't getting results that any of us are able to see.

Keep in mind Ronnie Barnes got his degrees in sports medicine in the 1970s, before the era of modern sports science. So when you have an organization that consistently ranks among the most injured, and you have case studies of injuries that seem to have been handled poorly, it's only natural for outside observers to wonder whether new leadership is needed in the trainer's office.

[MightyGiants]

Signs off on the health of the player at the time of the signing.  I think Schoen and Daboll were well aware of previous injuries and understood the risks.  I don't think the medical staff can veto a signing (or trade) if the player passes the physical.  They and/or analytics guys can give probabilities of further injury I would think, but aside from that player not passing the physical, I don't think he has the authority to deny a player the GM wants.

I get the scrutiny, but I dont think something like Schoen trading for a guy with a huge injury history is his fault.  The physical is after the trade.  If he passes the trade goes through.

I listen to many former GMs talk about how teams run.  The medical departments have veto power over all player acquisitions when it comes to health and future health.   A well-run medical department does far more than just give a player a physical.  They look at a player's medical history and project the likelihood of future injuries and issues. 

When the Waller trade was made (unless Schoen is completely incompetent), it was with the blessing of the medical department that there was a very good chance Waller would be healthy moving forward.  To trade for a player with a history of hamstring issues only to have his season ruined by hamstring issues is malpractice on the part of Ronnie Barnes' department.

[MightyGiants]

@uconngiant

I think enough time has passed for me to share a story.   Do you remember when the Giants released Luke Petigout without a real replacement (David Deihl was the projected replacement).   The reason that Reese released Petigout was the medical department told Reese that they had little confidence that Petigout could make it through another season healthy.   That shows the sort of power the medical people wield within even the Giants' organization.   The medical departments do more than just give a pass-fail on a one-time physical.

[Ed Vette]

@uconngiant

I think enough time has passed for me to share a story.   Do you remember when the Giants released Luke Petigout without a real replacement (David Deihl was the projected replacement).   The reason that Reese released Petigout was the medical department told Reese that they had little confidence that Petigout could make it through another season healthy.   That shows the sort of power the medical people wield within even the Giants' organization.   The medical departments do more than just give a pass-fail on a one-time physical.

Was the medical evaluation on Waller made public?

[MightyGiants]

Was the medical evaluation on Waller made public?

Seeing how they traded for him, it's reasonable to assume they signed off (admittedly, Schoen could have made the highly unusual move (based on the comments of every former GM I have heard) of overriding their veto).

[Ed Vette]

Seeing how they traded for him, it's reasonable to assume they signed off (admittedly, Schoen could have made the highly unusual move (based on the comments of every former GM I have heard) of overriding their veto).

It doesn't take a genius to realize there were risks involved. Schoen looked at that the risk-reward and made a decision. That's the most likely occums razor scenario as I see it.

What they should have done more work on is his psychological and mental resilience evaluation. The man cut his career short.

As for Barnes, I don't know how they managed his condition, but whatever they did, it didn't work.

[MightyGiants]

It doesn't take a genius to realize there were risks involved. Schoen looked at that the risk-reward and made a decision. That's the most likely occums razor scenario as I see it.

What they should have done more work on is his psychological and mental resilience evaluation. The man cut his career short.

As for Barnes, I don't know how they managed his condition, but whatever they did, it didn't work.

According to Waller, the treatment nearly killed him 

[MightyGiants]

Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Today is the Giants' second and final minicamp practice before a six-week break until training camp. Interested to see if they need to limit their team periods today due to the injury situation at WR.

Gunner Olszewski (ankle) is out and Isaiah McKenzie (?) hasn't participated all spring. Chase Cota (collarbone), Bryce Ford-Wheaton (shoulder) and Darius Slayton (?) left practice yesterday. Cota and Ford-Wheaton won't practice today, not sure about Slayton.

That could leave them with just nine healthy WR. Last thing they need is a starting WR to pull a hamstring in the last practice of the spring because he's taking extra reps.
8:44 AM · Jun 12, 2024
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