Does anyone here believe Tommy D really got a fair shot last year?

[AZGiantFan]

thats actually very off base

No, it just means you don't understand my comment.

Urban Dictionary: Internet Troll. Someone who takes pleasure in causing drama by arguing with people without wanting or accepting anyone's response, also known as a "Justin"

[BluesCruz]

No, it just means you don't understand my comment.

I think many fans agree with me.  They just won't step in as they fear main line conservative fans
will attack them....."stay in your lane, Management knows best"

Im not arguing with anyone, just trying to establish a few realities.  If Daboll and Schoen want to lead me off a cliff I'm backing out.  Im not a sheep or a lemming

As to drama- Where is the drama?  This is an off season football discussion board
not a political forum

If you were John Mara and I was the GM and I went to you and said-

Listen John Ive identified a QB in college who has a 19-19 record playing for a non-football school- a basketball school.  I like him and plan to use our 6th overall pick in the draft to grab him before anyone else figures this out...trust me

What would you or should you have said to me? By the way Im the same GM who took RB last year with the number 2 overall pick

Mara must have been scratching his head at that point...or should have been

[DaveBrown74]

The problem in threads like these is not in the question/original statement... it's the attention.

Many of us have an obsession with either correcting someone or trying to prove them wrong. That's what keeps these threads going.

Tim,

I'm not trying to argue with you here, but I actually have a completely serious question:

Would BBH be a better place if people routinely posted utterly false things like "Devito went 3-1 as a starter last year" and those statements just remained there, uncorrected?

IMHO, if false statements aren't corrected, they will just continue and probably become more frequent in nature. The person making the false statements, if never called out, will almost definitely just be emboldened to do it more and more frequently. If the site becomes littered with constant posts full of fake claims, I can't imagine that's good for the site as a whole.

You guys know my style pretty well by now I would think. I'm not some nagging nitpicker that goes around correcting everyone, nor am I one of these condescending, gadfly type posters here who is deliberately argumentative/judgy all the time and whose entire raison d'etre seems to be to just criticize people. On the contrary, I very seldom take that sort of approach. I debate, but I do so respectfully, unless I am dragged into a less than respectful exchange, in which case I feel justified in defending myself. That didn't happen in this thread, thankfully.

With the above said, I am a pretty firm believer in the statement of "you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts." When people say things that are 100% factually inaccurate in order to further an agenda, I feel like these falsehoods should be called out. That was a driving reason why I had several posts in this thread. I know some will call this taking the bait and feeding the trolls, and I get that, but if we are going to have posters here that push an agenda and post many times a day, would you and the other admins prefer that false statements just stay there and everyone just accept them? Would the site be better that way?

Again, serious question - this is not intended to be argumentative.

[BluesCruz]

Dave I did correct that in a later post.  3-3 is correct

3 is the grand total of the other 2 QBs combined BTW

We are picking nits now.   The question is not Tommy's total losses. I admittedly miscounted.
At my age the memory sometimes fades

Its whether after taking a severe head shot should Tommy have been given a little slack

Before that incident he was cruising and just looked the part.

He had command of the huddle and the team seemed to respond to his leadership.

He has a strong arm, can make all the throws and has good leg speed and pocket presence.

Was worth and is worth further consideration IMHO

[T200]

Tim,

I'm not trying to argue with you here, but I actually have a completely serious question:

Would BBH be a better place if people routinely posted utterly false things like "Devito went 3-1 as a starter last year" and those statements just remained there, uncorrected?

IMHO, if false statements aren't corrected, they will just continue and probably become more frequent in nature. The person making the false statements, if never called out, will almost definitely just be emboldened to do it more and more frequently. If the site becomes littered with constant posts full of fake claims, I can't imagine that's good for the site as a whole.

You guys know my style pretty well by now I would think. I'm not some nagging nitpicker that goes around correcting everyone, nor am I one of these condescending, gadfly type posters here who is deliberately argumentative/judgy all the time and whose entire raison d'etre seems to be to just criticize people. On the contrary, I very seldom take that sort of approach. I debate, but I do so respectfully, unless I am dragged into a less than respectful exchange, in which case I feel justified in defending myself. That didn't happen in this thread, thankfully.

With the above said, I am a pretty firm believer in the statement of "you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts." When people say things that are 100% factually inaccurate in order to further an agenda, I feel like these falsehoods should be called out. That was a driving reason why I had several posts in this thread. I know some will call this taking the bait and feeding the trolls, and I get that, but if we are going to have posters here that push an agenda and post many times a day, would you and the other admins prefer that false statements just stay there and everyone just accept them? Would the site be better that way?

Again, serious question - this is not intended to be argumentative.

Jeff,

I know you're not the argumentative type... no need to preface what you say - you're good. 

I do have to issue my OWN disclaimer: the following comments are as A FELLOW BBH MEMBER and *NOT* as a moderator.

Trolls feed off of attention. They *want* the attention. They *want* to be called out. They *want* to be the pot stirrer. They don't care about facts and truth. Rather, they distort the truth and cherry-pick facts in order to elicit a response.

No one agreed with him. Instead, the majority of the responses are to call him out or correct him.

Picture this: We are all in a bar called the BIG BLUE HUDDLE and, since the end of the season, he's been talking about how DeVito didn't get a fair shot, he's better than Jones and Taylor, and blah blah blah DeVito should be the starter, blah blah friggin' blah. It's now the end of June and he starts in again about DeVito:

"DeVito was 3-1 as a starter!" You gonna go over and correct him or just ignore him? Keep in mind, pretty much nothing he's said about DeVito from Day 1 has been credible or convincing.

In the BBH bar, no one is engaging him. Yet, here on the board, EVERYONE is responding to him. We know better but we can't help ourselves. We just *HAVE* to say something. No... we don't. Just ignore it and it will go away.

Every few months, @MightyGiants will post the meme about the wife telling the husband to get off the computer/phone and come to bed. He says, "Hold on honey, someone said something wrong on the internet and I have to correct him."

Oh, and to answer your first question:

Would BBH be a better place if people routinely posted utterly false things like "Devito went 3-1 as a starter last year" and those statements just remained there, uncorrected?

I personally think so. There would be much less back and forth over something that the majority knows isn't true. At the end of the day, he's a DeVito fan. Let him have it is my stance.

[MightyGiants]

for @T200

[T200]

@DaveBrown74

I will also add this: if it's a first-time discussion, sure, let's discuss it, make corrections to false claims and all that jazz.

The problem is the repetitiveness of the same stuff that's based in quicksand. The more we fight/correct him, the more we all get dragged down, the site included.

[DaveBrown74]

Jeff,

I know you're not the argumentative type... no need to preface what you say - you're good. 

I do have to issue my OWN disclaimer: the following comments are as A FELLOW BBH MEMBER and *NOT* as a moderator.

Trolls feed off of attention. They *want* the attention. They *want* to be called out. They *want* to be the pot stirrer. They don't care about facts and truth. Rather, they distort the truth and cherry-pick facts in order to elicit a response.

No one agreed with him. Instead, the majority of the responses are to call him out or correct him.

Picture this: We are all in a bar called the BIG BLUE HUDDLE and, since the end of the season, he's been talking about how DeVito didn't get a fair shot, he's better than Jones and Taylor, and blah blah blah DeVito should be the starter, blah blah friggin' blah. It's now the end of June and he starts in again about DeVito:

"DeVito was 3-1 as a starter!" You gonna go over and correct him or just ignore him? Keep in mind, pretty much nothing he's said about DeVito from Day 1 has been credible or convincing.

In the BBH bar, no one is engaging him. Yet, here on the board, EVERYONE is responding to him. We know better but we can't help ourselves. We just *HAVE* to say something. No... we don't. Just ignore it and it will go away.

Every few months, @MightyGiants will post the meme about the wife telling the husband to get off the computer/phone and come to bed. He says, "Hold on honey, someone said something wrong on the internet and I have to correct him."

Oh, and to answer your first question:

Would BBH be a better place if people routinely posted utterly false things like "Devito went 3-1 as a starter last year" and those statements just remained there, uncorrected?

I personally think so. There would be much less back and forth over something that the majority knows isn't true. At the end of the day, he's a DeVito fan. Let him have it is my stance.

Tim,

This was thoughtfully and nicely written, and it is good perspective. I like the point about the bar. You've given me some things to think about.

[DaveBrown74]

@DaveBrown74

I will also add this: if it's a first-time discussion, sure, let's discuss it, make corrections to false claims and all that jazz.

The problem is the repetitiveness of the same stuff that's based in quicksand. The more we fight/correct him, the more we all get dragged down, the site included.

Yup. I agree about repetitiveness. Circular conversations are tedious and add zero value. The same way posting the same posts about how nobody's opinions here matter or how making predictions of any kind is puerile and adds no value.

I agree with you.

[T200]

Yup. I agree about repetitiveness. Circular conversations are tedious and add zero value. The same way posting the same posts about how nobody's opinions here matter or how making predictions of any kind is puerile and adds no value.

I agree with you.

I know. It obviously has *some* value since they take the time to post a response.     

[AZGiantFan]

Yup. I agree about repetitiveness. Circular conversations are tedious and add zero value. The same way posting the same posts about how nobody's opinions here matter or how making predictions of any kind is puerile and adds no value.

I agree with you.

I think the repetitiveness is the real point.  After all, how many times, and in how many threads does the 'TdV went 3-1' need to be corrected?  Does it take 8-10 posts?

And I don't really care if a few (and I disagree with @T200 's comment "In the BBH bar, no one is engaging him. Yet, here on the board, EVERYONE is responding to him." because it isn't every one, its actually a small group) choose to engage with him.  I'm not about to tell anyone what they should post.  But I will snark a little on his trollish behavior and comment on how engaging with his trollish behavior just encourages more of the same. 

[BluesCruz]

yes I agree

don't try to show me the error of my ways

I am convinced I'm on to something.  Just maybe after 5 yrs of futility Jones is NOT the answer

Radical thinking but my opinion.  Lets roll him out there again and expect different results

You see its not Tommy its Daniel that the heart of the matter. Two QBs came in last year year and both outperformed him by a mile with the same personnel.

Surely he will turn it around in his 6th season.  For one thing he has an untested rookie WR thats the talk of the town

I was not expecting the crowd to side with me.  Call me the canary in the coal mine

Good Grief

[Ed Vette]

Most members here have either given up on Jones, or hope for the best. However, he's certainly the best of the three on the Roster. If he's not come September, Daboll would be a fool to keep starting him. I give Jones three games to prove himself. He would also be a complete idiot to bench Jones to start the season after passing on a QB in the Draft.

[DaveBrown74]

I think the repetitiveness is the real point.  After all, how many times, and in how many threads does the 'TdV went 3-1' need to be corrected?  Does it take 8-10 posts?

No, absolutely not, and I only corrected him once, myself.

He made the initial claim, I replied with a question asking if that claim was in fact true, because I actually wasn't 100% sure at that point but it sounded wrong. He then maintained his position, so I fact-checked it and it turned out to be wrong. At that point I stated it was wrong. I didn't repeat that it was wrong 8-10 times, nor was it collectively repeated 8-10 times in this thread by other posters.

I appreciate the 8-10 claim was intentionally hyperbolic, but it's not even remotely close to being true.

[Giant Obsession]

Okay, my own personal reason why DeVito got no love from his HC.

The Green Bay game.

The 14 yard out ball where he stood firm in the pocket and delivered the goods, which resulted in a 20 YAC.

It made me wonder "what else can this kid do in an affirmative, positive situation and atmosphere.

Much like Eli's 4 yard TD pass to Toomer against the Chiefs with 5 seconds left told me we got gold at QB for the next 10 years.  Remember that play, Eli must have drifted backpedalling the whole time and delivered that strike off his back foot.

DeVito's pass to Wandale hit me the same way.  What do I know it was just that same type of feeling.  Sadly TC ain't coaching us anymore.  And I have NO FAITH in the mess that is guiding us now. And still I wonder what does this kid have if nurtured correctly and professionally.  I know what Jones, Tyrod and Lock have it is well documented.  I doubt my question about DeVito will ever get answered.