My takeaways from episode one of Hard Knocks

[MightyGiants]

keep your boss happy

While I was uncomfortable with how many opinions John Mara expressed to his GM (so we agree), your comment struck me.   Ultimately, what's the best way to make the owner of a team happy?
 

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1808544972905336854


https://x.com/danschneiernfl/status/1808560554732114430?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

[kingm56]

We don't really know what the Giants thought of the 3 QBs they passed on.  We know two were drafted within 5 picks of the Giants and one 7 picks later.   That's what we know.  The rest of what you expressed is speculation.   For what it's worth, I think we should consider all actions, not just select actions, but that's just my opinion.


The Giants didn't draft an offensive lineman in this draft.  Are you suggesting that Schoen still saw a big need on the offensive line (the one he told his boss needed to be upgraded), and he just decided to leave the line a mess?  It seems reasonable to conclude that Schoen felt that all the free agent O-line additions, plus a new coach and the hopeful development of their younger drafted O-line, means the line will be serviceable this season.  Still, I know weren't looking for a response from me, as your post seemed to be intended to mock the point I made.

Just applying your logic: "Although it struck me that you didn't consider the Giants passing on JJ, Penix, and Nix an action (in terms of what they thought of their QB situation)"

They passed on the Oline in the draft; thus, based on your logic, we should conclude they're comfortable with the oline, or does said logic only apply to QB?

[AZGiantFan]

https://x.com/PFF_Sam/status/1808509532445753448

Has McDonnell been talking to uncle Mara?  Is he Mara's pipeline into the front office?

He even looks like Mara. 

[T200]

We don't really know what the Giants thought of the 3 QBs they passed on.  We know two were drafted within 5 picks of the Giants and one 7 picks later.   That's what we know.  The rest of what you expressed is speculation.   For what it's worth, I think we should consider all actions, not just select actions, but that's just my opinion.

Welllllll... we know Schoen tried to move up for a QB, presumably Maye. That tells us he wasn't 100% on Jones and was looking to upgrade the position.

We do know that he passed on the three that you mentioned. Soooooo, in terms of an upgrade over Jones, we can surmise that he did not view any of them as an upgrade. I think it's safe to say they liked Jones more than the guys they passed on.

He's looking to upgrade the QB position. He's not looking to replace Jones. Those are not the same. All pigeons are birds, not all birds are pigeons.

[MightyGiants]

Just applying your logic: "Although it struck me that you didn't consider the Giants passing on JJ, Penix, and Nix an action (in terms of what they thought of their QB situation)"

They passed on the Oline in the draft; thus, based on your logic, we should conclude they're comfortable with the oline, or does said logic only apply to QB?

You are conflating conclusions (or as you say logic) with observations.  I am not sure if I am being unclear or you are being deliberately obtuse.  My point is we should always consider all facts and observations.  We shouldn't filter our observations to try and fit a preconceived notion.  We can observe the QB interest and rumors of interest in trading up for a QB, we should also observe that the Giants passed on 3 QBs other teams considered franchise QBS.  We should observe the comments Schoen made about Jones as well.  The best chance of getting it right is to properly consider all information, not just information that supports what you currently believe.

[MightyGiants]

Welllllll... we know Schoen tried to move up for a QB, presumably Maye. That tells us he wasn't 100% on Jones and was looking to upgrade the position.

We do know that he passed on the three that you mentioned. Soooooo, in terms of an upgrade over Jones, we can surmise that he did not view any of them as an upgrade. I think it's safe to say they liked Jones more than the guys they passed on.

He's looking to upgrade the QB position. He's not looking to replace Jones. Those are not the same. All pigeons are birds, not all birds are pigeons.

I don't disagree with most of what you said.  Although we don't know if or how seriously Schoen tried to trade up.  At this point in time those reports are rumors.  Admittedly, from good sources, but still rumors.

[DaveBrown74]

We don't really know what the Giants thought of the 3 QBs they passed on.  We know two were drafted within 5 picks of the Giants and one 7 picks later.  That's what we know.  The rest of what you expressed is speculation.  For what it's worth, I think we should consider all actions, not just select actions, but that's just my opinion.

We know they didn't like them enough to draft them 6th overall in the draft. We also know, or at least have highly convincing reason to believe, that the Giants were very interested in Maye and made a spirited attempt to move up to get him. So unless you choose to simply dismiss the validity of the second statement out of hand and call it pure fiction, you cannot rationally conclude the reason they didn't take McCarthy, Penix, or Nix is because they're so committed to Jones that they're not interested in any other QBs. They would not have been willing to pay the price to move up to get Maye if that were the case.

[MightyGiants]

@T200 behind Schoen's desk is a blue bowling pin.  What do you think that is?

[T200]

@T200 behind Schoen's desk is a blue bowling pin.  What do you think that is?

Nice catch! Maybe he's a bowler and got it signed by some PBA friends?

[MightyGiants]

Nice catch! Maybe he's a bowler and got it signed by some PBA friends?

Thanks, I just watched the show again, that's how I caught it.

[T200]

Thanks, I just watched the show again, that's how I caught it.

You can see it in the clips above as well.

[MightyGiants]

We know they didn't like them enough to draft them 6th overall in the draft. We also know, or at least have highly convincing reason to believe, that the Giants were very interested in Maye and made a spirited attempt to move up to get him. So unless you choose to simply dismiss the validity of the second statement out of hand and call it pure fiction, you cannot rationally conclude the reason they didn't take McCarthy, Penix, or Nix is because they're so committed to Jones that they're not interested in any other QBs. They would not have been willing to pay the price to move up to get Maye if that were the case.

We now there are rumors from usually reliable sources that say the Giants tried to trade up.  The spirited claim is less than well sourced.  We also know the Giants passed on 3 first round QBs.  We also have Schoenberg saying well before the draft that he believed in Jones and said Jones had a bad situation last season. 

While everyone may interpret the data a bit differently, it's clear (at least to me) that Schoenberg hasn't given up on Jones as many fans and pundits have.   Jeff, you seem to have a very negative view on Jones.  If Schoen shared your view, do you think he would pass on his replacement when he was in a position to draft his replacement? After all, next year's prospects don't appear as good, and there is guarantee they will be drafting as high next draft.   Plus, Schoen made no effort to add more draft capital for next year's draft.

His moves seem to be that a man who believes Jones has a good chance of rebounding would make.

[AZGiantFan]

We know they didn't like them enough to draft them 6th overall in the draft. We also know, or at least have highly convincing reason to believe, that the Giants were very interested in Maye and made a spirited attempt to move up to get him. So unless you choose to simply dismiss the validity of the second statement out of hand and call it pure fiction, you cannot rationally conclude the reason they didn't take McCarthy, Penix, or Nix is because they're so committed to Jones that they're not interested in any other QBs. They would not have been willing to pay the price to move up to get Maye if that were the case.

They weren't willing to pay the price to move up for Maye.  That's why he's not on the roster.

[Gmo11]

I think Schoen, who clearly has not been flawless, is sensible enough to understand that he shouldn't just draft any QB that's available just for the sake of drafting a QB. I don't really take his passing on the QBs you mentioned (or any QB) as a gauge of exactly what he thinks of Jones. I think it has more to do with his and his team's specific grading out of each of those QBs.

I also think they are incredibly high on Nabers and didn't want to pass that opportunity up for a middling QB prospect or a QB prospect who has already had two ACLs and shoulder problems at age 23.

Drafting a QB just to draft a QB is what got them into this mess in the first place.

I understand Schoen not being willing to declare the QB he just signed the year before as a bust. With cameras around that's even less likely. He knows as well as we do that Jones is the QB for this coming season no matter what they do or don't do. So no sense in burying the guy on national TV. Personally I don't think Maye is any better anyway so taking Nabers over trading up to 3 makes me happy.

He did say this is Jones' year. Meaning he better see something out of this guy because as he said "you don't pay a guy 40 million dollars to hand the ball off" he's laying the groundwork now for the fans and possibly Mara himself to understand that this is it for Jones. This is his last chance before they pivot. I hope I'm wrong and Jones gets solid protection and turns in an enormous season. But there's just not a lot of evidence to suggest he has that in him.