Breaking down episode two of Hard Knocks

[DaveBrown74]

My initial quick thoughts:


(1) Definitely a much better and more interesting episode. I loved watching the combine scenes, in particular the interview scenes.

(2) Dabs is a good interviewer. Lots of quick reaction, detailed questions that put these guys on the spot, but he did it in a respectful and disarming way.

(3) It is now beyond even a shadow of a doubt that the Giants were interested in that number three pick and were in some degree of discussions with the Pats (we witnessed the beginnings of them in this episode firsthand). I thought it was a near virtual certainty before I saw this episode, but now I know 100% for sure.

(4) I was more impressed with the supporting cast in the front office than what I saw in the episode. I thought Hannah Burnett was impressive, and I continue to like Brandon Brown (although I liked him in the first episode as well).

(5) The scenes of the group having fun with each other in the stands and having a nice evening out were good to see. I think these kinds of things are important in work environments. You're going to deal with the job at hand better as a team when people know each other to some degree on a personal level and have established more of a connection.

(6) I thought Saquon sounded a bit aloof in that phone conversation with Schoen towards the end of the episode.

(7) Nabers pretty much said he'll be pissed if he doesn't get the ball in the interview. And Daboll said he liked that. Interesting.


Curious what everyone else thought.

[killarich]

At the very end ...... you see Joe on the white board mentioning 25 mil guaranteed and 12 mil AAV

If so that "home discount" Barkley mentioned over a year ago was complete bs and good riddance

But knowing how they hype up the next episodes on these kinds of shows ..... it could have just been a conversation of Joe saying maybe we offer him this type of money and see what happens but then saying it's not worth it

If he was indeed offered that ... than I agree with Joe ..... if he's going to be pissed off about another team offering 1 mil more vs being in the Giants ring of honor ...... he obviously had his mind up that he really never wanted to be a "Giant for life"

But it's also possible he never got that offer as Joe didn't feel it was worth it .... And in the end I agree with that also

[AZGiantFan]

My favorite moment is when they are interviewing Nabers, watching Schoen's reaction when Daboll says "sometimes you lose it . . . $hit I lose it too as the coach".  Schoen's grin and little push on Daboll's shoulder were priceless.

I would have rather seen more interactions with guys we ended up selecting than wasting time on the silliness about the 40.  Especially when they show the graphic of the top 40 times and you don't see many stars on the list.  And talking about the guy's hair??

The Saquon interactions looked to me like neither party really wanted or expected a deal to be made.  Especially the vocal version of Saquon's body language.  And I'm OK with that.

They gave an awful lot of face time to Hannah Burnett, considering she is a College Area Scout and considering that there are 4 College Area Scouts, a College Scout Coordinator, and a College BLESTO Scout who got nothing.  But that's the world we live in.

[AZGiantFan]

(3) It is now beyond even a shadow of a doubt that the Giants were interested in that number three pick and were in some degree of discussions with the Pats (we witnessed the beginnings of them in this episode firsthand). I thought it was a near virtual certainty before I saw this episode, but now I know 100% for sure.

I don't know how what we saw implies that conclusion.  I don't think the Pats had any intention of trading the #3 and I don't think the Giants had any intention of making a mega offer to get that pick.  "some degree" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

[killarich]

I don't know how what we saw implies that conclusion.  I don't think the Pats had any intention of trading the #3 and I don't think the Giants had any intention of making a mega offer to get that pick.  "some degree" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

I agree

I literally think Joe was just doing his due diligence by letting the pats know to hit him before they do anything ..... but it doesn't seem at all like he had any real intentions on trading up .....

Also whether we all agree or disagree ... or think one side of the camp is wrong or right ....it truly feels like any interest in a QB is due to DJ's health and not in what they perceive to be his talent level

[Jclayton92]

My initial thought is man, Schoen is making Barkley look horrible. Barkley said the Giants didn't offer, and he went to Philly for one million more. At least that is what it seems to me, could have read it wrong.

[MightyGiants]

My initial quick thoughts:


(1) Definitely a much better and more interesting episode. I loved watching the combine scenes, in particular the interview scenes.

(2) Dabs is a good interviewer. Lots of quick reaction, detailed questions that put these guys on the spot, but he did it in a respectful and disarming way.

(3) It is now beyond even a shadow of a doubt that the Giants were interested in that number three pick and were in some degree of discussions with the Pats (we witnessed the beginnings of them in this episode firsthand). I thought it was a near virtual certainty before I saw this episode, but now I know 100% for sure.

(4) I was more impressed with the supporting cast in the front office than what I saw in the episode. I thought Hannah Burnett was impressive, and I continue to like Brandon Brown (although I liked him in the first episode as well).

(5) The scenes of the group having fun with each other in the stands and having a nice evening out were good to see. I think these kinds of things are important in work environments. You're going to deal with the job at hand better as a team when people know each other to some degree on a personal level and have established more of a connection.

(6) I thought Saquon sounded a bit aloof in that phone conversation with Schoen towards the end of the episode.

(7) Nabers pretty much said he'll be pissed if he doesn't get the ball in the interview. And Daboll said he liked that. Interesting.


Curious what everyone else thought.

2) I have read repeatedly that the sort of questions Daboll asks are quite common, and they interview QBs (and sometimes other players).  They call it putting them on the white board.

3) I agree the Giants clearly had interest in the 3rd pick.  What surprised me was how little interest Schoen showed.  The rumors indicated the Giants desperately wanted to move up.  It sounded from the way the Giants approached the Pats (and even the discussion beforehand) that there was some interest but not a strong interest.  I also thought it was telling how Schoen had a conversation about Nabers with Daniel Jones.  If in Schoen's mind (as some fans have suggested), DJ was a dead man walking, I don't think he would be discussing WR prospects with him.

4) I am wondering if, in the long run, the Giants will regret letting Brown walk and keeping Schoen.  My gut tells me that Brandon Brown will ultimately prove to be a better GM than Schoen.

6) Barkley and Schoen's conversation seemed uncomfortable on both sides. I sensed Schoen couldn't get off that call fast enough.

[MightyGiants]

One thing I found interesting is who was in the little court of NYG's top people at the Combine.  The new O-line coach being there suggests, at that point, the Giants had serious interest in drafting O-line somewhere in the draft. 

It was also interesting that two of their analytics team were there as well.

[MightyGiants]

One other observation-  It seemed pretty clear that Schoen and company viewed Barkley, McKinney, and Burns (or another pass rusher) through the lens of where you want to allocate resources.   They clearly wanted to put the resources into a proven pass rusher rather than retaining a safety and an aging RB.

[MightyGiants]

Art Stapleton@art_stapleton

I think it says something about Joe Schoen - and who Brandon Brown is, too - that they could come together with no history and form the relationship we're seeing play out on Hard Knocks.
It's going to set Brown up to be a GM, and you can see Schoen values his opinion, as he should.


Art Stapleton@art_stapleton

Is it just me, or does Brandon Brown say the thing that needs to be said when it needs to be said when everyone needs to hear it?

[MightyGiants]

They gave an awful lot of face time to Hannah Burnett, considering she is a College Area Scout and considering that there are 4 College Area Scouts, a College Scout Coordinator, and a College BLESTO Scout who got nothing.  But that's the world we live in.

Hannah is well-spoken.  I would think HK interviewed much of the staff.  The people like Hannah, who gave the more interesting and compelling answers, are the ones that get shown on TV.

It's sort of funny, so many people talked about this being the better episode.  I got a sense that HK didn't feel like that had a lot of quality material.  So they filled it with filler and fluff like the NFL Network's previously aired coverage of the Combine.

[T200]

3) I agree the Giants clearly had interest in the 3rd pick.  What surprised me was how little interest Schoen showed.  The rumors indicated the Giants desperately wanted to move up.  It sounded from the way the Giants approached the Pats (and even the discussion beforehand) that there was some interest but not a strong interest.  I also thought it was telling how Schoen had a conversation about Nabers with Daniel Jones.  If in Schoen's mind (as some fans have suggested), DJ was a dead man walking, I don't think he would be discussing WR prospects with him.

Rich,

It's important to keep in mind that we are seeing only what they want to show us. Additionally, the cameras were not always present around Schoen for each and every conversation regarding the #3 spot.

As far as the conversation about Nabers with Jones, it stands to reason that while he may have been trying to maneuver to get a new QB, the fact remained that he still had one on his roster that he needed to build around. He couldn't just throw all of his eggs in one basket, one way or the other. I think Jones is a conditional dead-man walking.

[MightyGiants]

The guy helping Schoen prep for his presser (I thought he was really on top of things)



He has since been promoted to Senior Director of Football Communications

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

It's important to keep in mind that we are seeing only what they want to show us. Additionally, the cameras were not always present around Schoen for each and every conversation regarding the #3 spot.

As far as the conversation about Nabers with Jones, it stands to reason that while he may have been trying to maneuver to get a new QB, the fact remained that he still had one on his roster that he needed to build around. He couldn't just throw all of his eggs in one basket, one way or the other. I think Jones is a conditional dead-man walking.

Tim,

I am evaluating based on the information at hand.  It's very possible we will see much stronger indications of their desire to trade for a QB and what they think of Daniel Jones over the next 2 episodes.  I am taking the information and evaluating it as it comes.

To date, on the show, we saw Schoen essentially put a bookmark with the Patriots, asking them not to trade their pick (if interested) until they talked to the Giants.  It's somewhat of a truism that whoever opens trade talks tends to be at a disadvantage.  That said, even this bookmark move made Schoen the guy initiating talks.  So Schoen could have been more aggressive even this early.  We will see how things play out.

[Philosophers]

Remember they shot more film but edited down to what we see.

As of now much more devoted to Schoen than Dabs.

The Combine interviews were good.  Wish we saw more especially of the QBs.