Have we ever witnessed a coach like Brian Daboll?

[Trench]

I loved the "I'm raising the ante" speech by Fassel too, but if memory serves, the Giants were 7-4 at the time.

Guaranteeing playoffs for a 7-4 team is noteworthy because most coaches don't do things like that, but the call itself was not overly bold. The Giants' Vegas odds of making the playoffs at the time he said that were probably around 70% or so (just as a rough guess), and the reality is if they didn't make the playoffs that year, he was probably getting fired whether he had made that guarantee or not. So I'm not sure how much he was putting his neck on the line there in actuality.

Still a badass speech though. One of my favorite speeches/quotes for any Giants coach.

All I'm saying is if we analyze Fassel tenure, that was a helluva defining moment and the team responded

[DaveBrown74]

All I'm saying is if we analyze Fassel tenure, that was a helluva defining moment and the team responded

Would you say it is likely or even a coin toss that a 7-4 team would have missed the playoffs had he not made that speech?

If so, I would have to disagree. 7-4 teams usually make the playoffs.

If not, it is not clear to me that the team necessarily "responded" to the speech per se, but again, that does not change the fact that it was still a noteworthy and inspiring speech.

[Trench]

Would you say it is likely or even a coin toss that a 7-4 team would have missed the playoffs had he not made that speech?

If so, I would have to disagree. 7-4 teams usually make the playoffs.

If not, it is not clear to me that the team necessarily "responded" to the speech per se, but again, that does not change the fact that it was still a noteworthy and inspiring speech.

I think ive seen teams 7-4 miss playoffs. Back then many were looking to replace fassell - he was under a lot of pressure hence the speech. At least that's my recollection

[DaveBrown74]

I think ive seen teams 7-4 miss playoffs. Back then many were looking to replace fassell - he was under a lot of pressure hence the speech. At least that's my recollection

Very good point Trench. I remember that too. People were getting frustrated with him and there was buzz in the air at the time of maybe getting rid of him after the season. I think they maybe had lost two or three games in a row at the time and people weren't happy.

So it is very fair to say that the above context made the speech even more impactful. I agree with you. Good point.

[nb587]

Its way to early to draw meaningful conclusions about Daboll as a coach.  There are to many variables that go into a record and a coaches impact on the record.  Daboll took a bad team and through a combination of outsmarting the opponents and alot of luck in how the ball bounced, had a very successful season.  Last year, the team was not prepared coming into the season plus some bad luck especially related to numerous serious injuries where there was no depth, Daboll took a bad team and had a bad record although a case could be made the record was bettet than the team.  The talent is now better and presumably Daboll has learned from his mistakes.  We will see. 

The only thing I would add is that the players seem to play for him.  If they stop, that's a fatal negative

[Trench]

I found it interesting to watch Dabs ask the draft QBs about plays and preferences on the spot. Pretty telling stuff

[madbadger]

According to stats muse the Giants were 22nd in games lost due to injury and 7th in 2023. Same coach both years but the injury bug that has afflicted this franchise for more a decade decided to take a vacation in 2022. I don't think it's any more than that.

[DaveBrown74]

According to stats muse the Giants were 22nd in games lost due to injury and 7th in 2023. Same coach both years but the injury bug that has afflicted this franchise for more a decade decided to take a vacation in 2022. I don't think it's any more than that.

Great observation. I would agree that that was, at least, a material driver of the disparity between the two seasons.

[nb587]

It isnt just the injuries.  Its injuries where you have no depth or what you have sucks like the Giants.  Its bad enough losing Andres Thomas for multiple games.  But, when his backup is not an NFL quality player, its takes on a different dimension.

[MightyGiants]

According to stats muse the Giants were 22nd in games lost due to injury and 7th in 2023. Same coach both years but the injury bug that has afflicted this franchise for more a decade decided to take a vacation in 2022. I don't think it's any more than that.

That site is crap.  What it ranks is the number of losses, not man-days lost.  They only list the top team (in terms of man-days lost).  Unfortunately, the Twitter account that tracked these stats went silent in 2023.

@DaveBrown74

[MightyGiants]

If  you want to compare injuries from 2022 and 2023, this might help

2022

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2022_injuries.htm

2023

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2023_injuries.htm

[AZGiantFan]

Some people don't respond well to prosperity but respond well to adversity.  I hope Daboll is that kind.

[Hadron]

Garbage schedule in Daboll's first year followed by a ridiculous strength of schedule boost in year two. Saquon and that defense could only carry the team so far.

Mcadoo benefited from a similar boom his first year before cratering in year two. OBJ and that defense could only carry that team so far.

If memory serves, I think they played the AFC South both years.

Regardless, I'm hoping/pulling for Dabs to get the team turned around in year three. The albatross (Jones) might derail that scenario.

[DaveBrown74]

Hindsight is a powerful thing. Everyone talks about how the Giants had a joke schedule in the early part of 2022 and that that team was a bit of a fraud, but you weren't hearing much of that from anyone right in the moment, when the team was 6-1 coming off that early run playing those teams.

[Hadron]

Plenty of people were pointing out issues with those wins at the time. Don't try and rewrite history.