What we learned about the offensive line on Hard Knocks

[MightyGiants]

After watching it twice and pondering, it occurred to me that we learned quite a bit about the Giants' thoughts on the offensive line.

LIKE

1)  The Giants are in the process of giving up on Neal.   If the Giants still had hope for Neal, they would not have made offers to 3 O-line starters (2 guards in Hunt and Runyan) and a RT Eluemunor.

2)  It would also stand to reason that the Giants don't have high hopes for draft picks Ezudud or McKethan.


One thing that troubles me is that the three offers clearly indicated that Schoen and the company believed they needed 3 starters on the O-line.   Rising prices cut their target of 3 starting O-linemen to 2, but the Giants didn't draft O-linemen number 3.

So, at this point, I am less optimistic about the O-line than I was on Monday (and I wasn't that excited even then).

[Ed Vette]

Rich, I agree with your second point. I think however that Schoen wanted a backup plan for Neal and that's why he paid Eluemunor and brought in three Guards. I don't believe he's given up on him just yet, but it's definitely a shot over his head. xxxx or get off the pot.

[President Rick]

there's still the option of trying Neal at guard and putting  Eluemunor at ORT.

[MightyGiants]

there's still the option of trying Neal at guard and putting  Eluemunor at ORT.

Rick,

Did you notice that while they mentioned Thomas and JMS, they never talked about Neal?

[Ed Vette]

there's still the option of trying Neal at guard and putting  Eluemunor at ORT.

Rick, would you plug Neal in at RG this season if he failed at RT or would you wait until next season and prepare him to compete at RG?

[DaveBrown74]

I think there is a clear difference between being worried or pessimistic and giving up. If you have truly given up on a player, that player is not going to get a roster spot, period. I am all but certain Neal will get a roster spot this year.

I think Schoen and company are probably pretty worried about Neal at this point, and they may be losing faith, but I'll be surprised if he is not still starting for them in week one. That's not giving up. That's hoping for improvement but giving yourself more of a legitimate plan B.

[MightyGiants]

I think there is a clear difference between being worried or pessimistic and giving up. If you have truly given up on a player, that player is not going to get a roster spot, period. I am all but certain Neal will get a roster spot this year.

I think Schoen and company are probably pretty worried about Neal at this point, and they may be losing faith, but I'll be surprised if he is not still starting for them in week one. That's not giving up. That's hoping for improvement but giving yourself more of a legitimate plan B.

I think if the Giants had landed the three O-linemen they made offers to, Neal would likely be looking at being on the bench unless he proved he was worthy of starting.  As it stands, the Giants are one linemen short (assuming good health) so Neal gets another shot of starting unless he proves he can't handle it (as opposed to having to earn the starting position)

[BluesCruz]

So we go 1-5 again, as Jones gets hammered for 6 games

Im beginning to think 20-30 guys on this board could run this team better than our present Front Office.

At least before Hard Knocks I could fantasize we knew what we were doing but just were unlucky.....now I have to admit none of these guys remind me of Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick.  Either that or they are just messing with us knowing the Hard Knocks cameras are on all the time

[MightyGiants]

So we go 1-5 again, as Jones gets hammered for 6 games

Im beginning to think 20-30 guys on this board could run this team better than our present Front Office.

At least before Hard Knocks I could fantasize we knew what we were doing but just were unlucky.....now I have to admit none of these guys remind me of Vince Lombardi or Bill Belichick.  Either that or they are just messing with us knowing the Hard Knocks cameras are on all the time

Ed,

I don't understand where you are coming from.  In one post, you are bashing former GM Mike Lombardi for criticizing Schoen and company, and then in the next post, you are criticizing Schoen and company.   

[President Rick]

The show [perhaps intentionally] leaves a lot of ????'s.  what do we know about Neal at Guard?  I was saying if he's not our best RT try him at G.  From hard knocks, it looked like Schoen wanted to try for three OL at first but when the $$$ for Hunt soared, he only really had cash for two, unless they gave up on the Spiderman deal.  They acknowledged we had a lot of needs...even rattled them off briefly, just as we've been doing here for months. Did not mentioning Neal mean they think he's zero, or just that they figure to use him somewhere and were more concerned about the guard slots?   And, why sign a good FA proven RT only to play him at guard??   Looks to me like the line is still in flux, depending on camp.  We have to see what Neal can do, and if not T try G, and if not those, cut him or [???] trade him for a 6 or 7 [???]. 

BTW no one seemed to worry when McKinney walked...ho hum, he signed and got top safety $$$$.  We couldn't keep him but no one shed tears or moaned about finding another.  Obviously the show leaves many ??'s unanswered, and we'll see when the season starts what we have.

[MightyGiants]

The show [perhaps intentionally] leaves a lot of ????'s.  what do we know about Neal at Guard?  I was saying if he's not our best RT try him at G.  From hard knocks, it looked like Schoen wanted to try for three OL at first but when the $$$ for Hunt soared, he only really had cash for two, unless they gave up on the Spiderman deal.  They acknowledged we had a lot of needs...even rattled them off briefly, just as we've been doing here for months. Did not mentioning Neal mean they think he's zero, or just that they figure to use him somewhere and were more concerned about the guard slots?   And, why sign a good FA proven RT only to play him at guard??   Looks to me like the line is still in flux, depending on camp.  We have to see what Neal can do, and if not T try G, and if not those, cut him or [???] trade him for a 6 or 7 [???]. 

BTW no one seemed to worry when McKinney walked...ho hum, he signed and got top safety $$$$.  We couldn't keep him but no one shed tears or moaned about finding another.  Obviously the show leaves many ??'s unanswered, and we'll see when the season starts what we have.

One thing Joe Schoen has demonstrated since becoming the GM is that he understands positional value.  Neither Safety nor RB is in the top tier when it comes to value.  While it was unsaid, I suspect that Schoen had decided to let both of them walk unless they could be signed at a significant discount.

As for Neal, I hoped that the Giants had concluded that Bobby Johnson poorly developed Neal, and they believed Carmen Bricillo would be able to "coach him up" into a serviceable RT.   From what we have seen from HK, it appears that the Giants have reached a point where any contribution Neal can give would be considered a bonus or icing on the cake.

[President Rick]

well said, Rich.

[Philosophers]

After watching it twice and pondering, it occurred to me that we learned quite a bit about the Giants' thoughts on the offensive line.

LIKE

1)  The Giants are in the process of giving up on Neal.   If the Giants still had hope for Neal, they would not have made offers to 3 O-line starters (2 guards in Hunt and Runyan) and a RT Eluemunor.

2)  It would also stand to reason that the Giants don't have high hopes for draft picks Ezudud or McKethan.


One thing that troubles me is that the three offers clearly indicated that Schoen and the company believed they needed 3 starters on the O-line.   Rising prices cut their target of 3 starting O-linemen to 2, but the Giants didn't draft O-linemen number 3.

So, at this point, I am less optimistic about the O-line than I was on Monday (and I wasn't that excited even then).

Rich - I think you may have misinterpreted it.  When Schoen asked Dabs what his greatest concern was he said, "Offensive Line" then he paused for a few seconds then said, "Interior OL."  I could not believe that and concluded he still believes in Neal.

[todge]

Aaron Stinnie started at G and played fairly well for Tampa. He suffered an injury in training camp and sat out last year leading to his Free Agency. The Giants could use him at Guard if Neal fails and Eleumenor is moved to ORT.

Am I the only one who wasn't in love with McKinney's game? He was a decent cover guy but I saw him make far too many "business decisions " avoiding physicality. I always watch defensive players at the goal line. I saw far too many instances where McKinney avoided putting his head into the pile to prevent a RB from crossing the goal line. There were too many times he just watched his teammates put forth extra effort.


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[Philosophers]

Aaron Stinnie started at G and played fairly well for Tampa. He suffered an injury in training camp and sat out last year leading to his Free Agency. The Giants could use him at Guard if Neal fails and Eleumenor is moved to ORT.

Am I the only one who wasn't in love with McKinney's game? He was a decent cover guy but I saw him make far too many "business decisions " avoiding physicality. I always watch defensive players at the goal line. I saw far too many instances where McKinney avoided putting his head into the pile to prevent a RB from crossing the goal line. There were too many times he just watched his teammates put forth extra effort.


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That's a very interesting observation about McKinney.  I had not noticed it but my gut thinks you are right.  I saw him making many more back of the field plays than at the LOS.