Who would you rather have drafted

[todge]

What facts are needed to post your opinion that you see a QB who is not flourishing.

Its my opinion and apparently the opinion of Schoen/Daboll as in the draft they were actively pursuing a replacement at QB.  I respect your opinion and respect your argument for the 2022 season performance of Jones.  Id love to know how/why he
fell so far so fast.  Ill admit I could not believe how bad things became in the beginning of the 2023 season

Can we agree to disagree?

There is no competition between Jones and Lock. Lock himself stated he was told he's the backup. That was in response to his GM at Denver who stated otherwise.

Several Giant beat writers have stated that the team was looking at QBs in the Draft because of concerns about Jones' injury history... not because of talent questions.

You asked why Jones fell so far so fast in 2023. That's an easy question to answer - the OL was not just bad, it was horrific. Once Thomas went down in the second game, his replacement Ezeudu was pathetic, Neal was bad as usual, Glowinski was ultimately replaced and Schmitz was a rookie. Once Thomas returned, Pugh replaced Glowinski and Schmitz gained game experience, things improved but it was too late as Jones was injured and out.

George Young claimed the offensive line was the most important position on a team. His quote - " show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line" is very true.


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[BluesCruz]

There is no competition between Jones and Lock. Lock himself stated he was told he's the backup. That was in response to his GM at Denver who stated otherwise.

Several Giant beat writers have stated that the team was looking at QBs in the Draft because of concerns about Jones' injury history... not because of talent questions.

You asked why Jones fell so far so fast in 2023. That's an easy question to answer - the OL was not just bad, it was horrific. Once Thomas went down in the second game, his replacement Ezeudu was pathetic, Neal was bad as usual, Glowinski was ultimately replaced and Schmitz was a rookie. Once Thomas returned, Pugh replaced Glowinski and Schmitz gained game experience, things improved but it was too late as Jones was injured and out.

George Young claimed the offensive line was the most important position on a team. His quote - " show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line" is very true.


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Can you explain how devito and Taylor did so well with the same supporting cast????

[MightyGiants]

Can you explain how devito and Taylor did so well with the same supporting cast????

Easy, they didn't have the same supporting cast

[Jclayton92]

Can you explain how devito and Taylor did so well with the same supporting cast????

I know you are beating this drum but Wandale was still coming off injury, Waller banged up and the oline decimated for Jones and he still played better than Devito. If you want to make a case for Taylor be my guest because he thrived, Devito did not.

[todge]

Can you explain how devito and Taylor did so well with the same supporting cast????

I responded to this question several times. So one last try ...

As Rich stated, it wasn't the same supporting cast nor was the level of competition. Thomas was out until mid season and his replacement Ezeudu was a train wreck. Glowinski was horrible and was ultimately replaced by Pugh. Schmitz was a rookie who started to improve by midseason. Neal was terrible all year. Barkley was also out for a considerable amount of time.

One credible source charted Jones' time in the pocket at 1.7 seconds before he was hurried, hit, harassed or sacked. Troy Aikman stated that "Jones has no chance" and he didn't, barely getting the snapped ball before the pressure began. There came a point where DJ couldn't mentally function because he had no faith he would have time to execute the pass play.

For those who still think that OL protection isn't important - Patrick Mahomes lost two of his starting offensive linemen in the Tampa Bay Super Bowl. He threw for 0 TDs, 2 interceptions and an abysmal 52.3 QB rating.

The other issue in the DeVito/Jones debate was the level of competition. Jones faced Dallas, San Francisco, Miami, Buffalo, Seattle and Arizona (the only win). Devito had wins against the Commanders, Patriots and Packers. The former two among the worst teams in the NFL. It goes without saying that defensive players for the teams Jones faced were far superior to the ones Devito faced.


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[BluesCruz]

I responded to this question several times. So one last try ...

As Rich stated, it wasn't the same supporting cast nor was the level of competition. Thomas was out until mid season and his replacement Ezeudu was a train wreck. Glowinski was horrible and was ultimately replaced by Pugh. Schmitz was a rookie who started to improve by midseason. Neal was terrible all year. Barkley was also out for a considerable amount of time.

One credible source charted Jones' time in the pocket at 1.7 seconds before he was hurried, hit, harassed or sacked. Troy Aikman stated that "Jones has no chance" and he didn't, barely getting the snapped ball before the pressure began. There came a point where DJ couldn't mentally function because he had no faith he would have time to execute the pass play.

For those who still think that OL protection isn't important - Patrick Mahomes lost two of his starting offensive linemen in the Tampa Bay Super Bowl. He threw for 0 TDs, 2 interceptions and an abysmal 52.3 QB rating.

The other issue in the DeVito/Jones debate was the level of competition. Jones faced Dallas, San Francisco, Miami, Buffalo, Seattle and Arizona (the only win). Devito had wins against the Commanders, Patriots and Packers. The former two among the worst teams in the NFL. It goes without saying that defensive players for the teams Jones faced were far superior to the ones Devito faced.


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weak argument.  1-5, 2 tds passing 30 sacks to devotes 39  puntathlon
jones is very very suspect worst was Dallas taunting him to throw it

[todge]

Isn't every QB taken early a big risk except for 2 I can think of off hand-

John Elway

Peyton Manning

Thats the risk you have to take....Jones,for instance, LOOKED the part
but real world his flaws were quickly exposed

Quickly exposed? Rookie Daniel Jones threw 24 TD passes in 12 games and a rise to 5th in the league in QBR. Unfortunately the offense around him disintegrated and naturally his play did as well.

His "flaws" were not reproducing his rookie stats due to numerous coaching and scheme changes, injuries, poor WR corps and awful offensive lines.


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[BluesCruz]

Quickly exposed? Rookie Daniel Jones threw 24 TD passes in 12 games and a rise to 5th in the league in QBR. Unfortunately the offense around him disintegrated and naturally his play did as well.

His "flaws" were not reproducing his rookie stats due to numerous coaching and scheme changes, injuries, poor WR corps and awful offensive lines.


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Of course
He is the best

[todge]

Of course
He is the best

I never claimed Daniel Jones was "the best" and you know that. I presented facts to refute your claim DJ has flaws that were "quickly exposed".  Of course DJ has flaws. All players do.


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[uconnjack8]

I responded to this question several times. So one last try ...

As Rich stated, it wasn't the same supporting cast nor was the level of competition. Thomas was out until mid season and his replacement Ezeudu was a train wreck. Glowinski was horrible and was ultimately replaced by Pugh. Schmitz was a rookie who started to improve by midseason. Neal was terrible all year. Barkley was also out for a considerable amount of time.

One credible source charted Jones' time in the pocket at 1.7 seconds before he was hurried, hit, harassed or sacked. Troy Aikman stated that "Jones has no chance" and he didn't, barely getting the snapped ball before the pressure began. There came a point where DJ couldn't mentally function because he had no faith he would have time to execute the pass play.

For those who still think that OL protection isn't important - Patrick Mahomes lost two of his starting offensive linemen in the Tampa Bay Super Bowl. He threw for 0 TDs, 2 interceptions and an abysmal 52.3 QB rating.

The other issue in the DeVito/Jones debate was the level of competition. Jones faced Dallas, San Francisco, Miami, Buffalo, Seattle and Arizona (the only win). Devito had wins against the Commanders, Patriots and Packers. The former two among the worst teams in the NFL. It goes without saying that defensive players for the teams Jones faced were far superior to the ones Devito faced.


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You should add T/O margin for both QBs to your points.  Defense had a bunch of takeaways while Tommy was QB.

[AZGiantFan]

You should add T/O margin for both QBs to your points.  Defense had a bunch of takeaways while Tommy was QB.

Great point that hasn't really been folded into the discussion.  In the first 5 games of 2023 the Giants only had 3 takeaways, 28th in the leagur, before going on to lead the league for the season.

[uconnjack8]

Great point that hasn't really been folded into the discussion.  In the first 5 games of 2023 the Giants only had 3 takeaways, 28th in the leagur, before going on to lead the league for the season.

In DeVito's 3 wins the Giants got 12 takeaways.  Had 3 giveaways, but that's still a +9 for 3 games. 

[MightyGiants]

I never claimed Daniel Jones was "the best" and you know that. I presented facts to refute your claim DJ has flaws that were "quickly exposed".  Of course DJ has flaws. All players do.


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@BluesCruz doesn't do facts

[AZGiantFan]

In DeVito's 3 wins the Giants got 12 takeaways.  Had 3 giveaways, but that's still a +9 for 3 games. 

That DeVito was quite the ballhawk.   

[y_so_blu]

Neither. I wanted McCarthy.