Hard Knocks Episode 4 Discussion

[DaveBrown74]

I thought this was an enjoyable and interesting episode. Thoughts off the top of my head:


-This was my favorite episode, followed by episode two.

-It was very clear that the Giants were actively interested in trading up with the Pats and that they also liked Daniels but basically knew there was no chance the Commanders would do a trade with them.

-The Pats made it clear that the only way the Giants would be able to move up to three would be if they really paid through the nose in a punitive way, and Schoen was not going to do that.

-Nabers is clearly going to be a beast. The footage of him at the pro day was fun to watch. I didn't realize quite how ripped and big he is. To move the way he does with that much muscle mass is unusual. Not just the speed but the twitchiness to that degree.

-I loved Dabs' mention of his conversation with Saban and Saban's strong endorsement of Nabers and Bowers, the latter of whom seemed to be in the Giants' contingency plans had they moved down.

-Sounds like they would have been happy with any of the three receivers, and it's unclear that the preferred Harrison to Nabers. We know Groh preferred Nabers.

-All the interactions in this episode were fun to watch. Much livelier than episode three.

-Episode five (draft day) should be a lot of fun to watch.

[EDjohnst1981]

I'm looking forward to watching it later.

Is the 5th episode the final one?

[Ed Vette]

The QB target in negotiations with the Pats was obviously Drake Maye and Schoen didn't have enough faith in the pick to give away the farm. At least not enough of a margin over Jones who would likely be the 2024 starter if they drafted Maye. We knew he liked Jones over McCarthy, Nix and Penix. Even drafting down he wasn't taking any one of them.

[MightyGiants]

First this episode exposed quite a bit of BS

1) Buyers remorse

2) The Giants were trying to trade up for Alt

3) The Giants' interest in JJ

4) The Giants were desperately trying to trade up in the hours before the draft

5) Any final trade offers the Giants made to New England

6) Mara's supposed love for Jones.  Mara was more concerned with the cost of trading to get a QB, than moving on from Jones


Now observations

A)  It seemed Schoen was more eager for a QB than Daboll.  It seemed Daboll was more interested in a WR

B)  I loved the conversation between Brown and Mara.  If Brown isn't a GM next year, something is wrong

C)  I saw Schoen and Daboll fall into a trap I fell into with interviewing-  Talk and lecture less, let the interviewee talk.  You learn precious little to nothing while you are talking.  Yet, it's natural for managers to coach and lecture.

D)  I enjoyed seeing the top three WRs together in a classroom setting.  That was a great way to see how they will be when they are in your own WR room

E)  A Chris Mara sighting 

F)  Kafka makes an appearance!

G) Daboll's interview style is interesting (he sits like he is hanging out). At first, I was put off, but then I appreciated that such a move would put the interviewee at ease. 

H)  While we the fans, had Nabers and Odunze neck and neck, clearly the Giants did not

I) The Giants seemed to have zero interest in the second-tier QBs of JJ, Penix, and Nix

[MightyGiants]

I'm looking forward to watching it later.

Is the 5th episode the final one?

Yes

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/Giants/status/1816089699217223915

[Philosophers]

First this episode exposed quite a bit of BS

1) Buyers remorse

2) The Giants were trying to trade up for Alt

3) The Giants' interest in JJ

4) The Giants were desperately trying to trade up in the hours before the draft

5) Any final trade offers the Giants made to New England

6) Mara's supposed love for Jones.  Mara was more concerned with the cost of trading to get a QB, than moving on from Jones


Now observations

A)  It seemed Schoen was more eager for a QB than Daboll.  It seemed Daboll was more interested in a WR

B)  I loved the conversation between Brown and Mara.  If Brown isn't a GM next year, something is wrong

C)  I saw Schoen and Daboll fall into a trap I fell into with interviewing-  Talk and lecture less, let the interviewee talk.  You learn precious little to nothing while you are talking.  Yet, it's natural for managers to coach and lecture.

D)  I enjoyed seeing the top three WRs together in a classroom setting.  That was a great way to see how they will be when they are in your own WR room

E)  A Chris Mara sighting 

F)  Kafka makes an appearance!

G) Daboll's interview style is interesting (he sits like he is hanging out). At first, I was put off, but then I appreciated that such a move would put the interviewee at ease. 

H)  While we the fans, had Nabers and Odunze neck and neck, clearly the Giants did not

I) The Giants seemed to have zero interest in the second-tier QBs of JJ, Penix, and Nix

Rich - between you and Jeff, I agree with almost all of your conclusions.  I thought Schoen writing down 4 names for his daughter to pick one was telling — Maye, Harrison, Nabers and Odunze.

Trading up was for Maye;

Pickung at 6 was for Maye, Nabers or Harrison.

Trading back was for Odunze or Bowers.

That seemed to be the plan.

One thing that bummed me out was in their discussion of QBs drafted iver past 10 years who failed, I would have loved to hear them explain what they got wrong in their conclusions as I am sure they liked some of those failed QBs.  That would have been a cool discussion.

[MightyGiants]

Rich - between you and Jeff, I agree with almost all of your conclusions.  I thought Schoen writing down 4 names for his daughter to pick one was telling — Maye, Harrison, Nabers and Odunze.

Trading up was for Maye;

Pickung at 6 was for Maye, Nabers or Harrison.

Trading back was for Odunze or Bowers.

That seemed to be the plan.

One thing that bummed me out was in their discussion of QBs drafted iver past 10 years who failed, I would have loved to hear them explain what they got wrong in their conclusions as I am sure they liked some of those failed QBs.  That would have been a cool discussion.

I was disappointed that Daboll was doing his study on his phone.  This is the sort of thing that you give to your analytics department to run with.  They could have come back with the hit rates by draft position, as you mentioned why the failed, as well as other insights.   Analytics is more than just injury prevention (as Kafka alluded to in his recent interview).

[MightyGiants]

One other thing: I thought it was cool that our new O-line coach was chatting it up with Saquan.   Carmen seems to be a real people person, which is a good thing, in my opinion.

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1816108432325234773

[madbadger]

As fans there's always posts around draft time that if we can't draft player X we should trade back for additional picks. We learned that isn't always possible. At pick six this draft was deep enough that whoever owned that pick was going to land a premium player and yet there were no other teams had interest in trading up.


The other thing I found surprising is that we had more interest in Bowers than McCarthy, who wasn't mentioned at all. I'm actually really encouraged about that. He is what most of us would think of as Mara's ideal quarterback. A clean cut, good looking and articulate white quarterback. I'm hopeful it's a sign that Daboll and Schoen have complete control. It was clear that Mara had fallen head over heels in love with Jones despite a mediocre college track record. I thought a quarterback with similar traits who actually had an accomplished college career would be impossible for Mara to pass up.

[Jclayton92]

If I'm being honest it felt like a short filler episode.

[Philosophers]

As fans there's always posts around draft time that if we can't draft player X we should trade back for additional picks. We learned that isn't always possible. At pick six this draft was deep enough that whoever owned that pick was going to land a premium player and yet there were no other teams had interest in trading up.


The other thing I found surprising is that we had more interest in Bowers than McCarthy, who wasn't mentioned at all. I'm actually really encouraged about that. He is what most of us would think of as Mara's ideal quarterback. A clean cut, good looking and articulate white quarterback. I'm hopeful it's a sign that Daboll and Schoen have complete control. It was clear that Mara had fallen head over heels in love with Jones despite a mediocre college track record. I thought a quarterback with similar traits who actually had an accomplished college career would be impossible for Mara to pass up.

Bowers was really productive and good in college.  Although different in personality than Shockey he reminded me more of Shockey than any other TE I can remember as a pass catching TE and hard runner after.

[MightyGiants]

If I'm being honest it felt like a short filler episode.

To each their own, I really liked this episode

[Gmo11]

Seemed like Daboll liked Daniels a lot and they would have traded up for either Daniels or Maye if it were possible but the Commanders and Pats had no interest in moving off those spots. 

I liked that they had a deal in place with the Bears should both of their WRs have been picked before them.  Much better than Gettleman's philosophy of "panic and do something stupid"

Interesting that they had Nabers as their WR1 in this draft.  Granted they could have filmed that same scene for all 3 WRs figuring they were going to get one of them and only aired the correct one... but I choose to believe they liked him the best because that makes me happier.

This year was easier than some others, but Schoen nailed exactly how the top 10 was going to go.  Not that he's some genius, I'm sure a lot of GMs also knew what was going to happen, but he did get it right and because of that they were not at all surprised.

I'll be curious to see in the next episode if they fielded any calls for the #6 pick for Nabers and what those offers were if there were any.  Given how highly they seemed to have Nabers rated I'm not sure there is much of anything that could have pushed them off of him, but will be interested to see if they were tempted.