Giants sign oline Roten

[Bob In PA]

A number of those reps I don't even think are "pressures." Very few in which he was beat badly. The worst to my eye were 2 reps against 54 from the Lions, Alim McNeill... and apparently that guy had an 88 PFF rating last year.

H-T: Not sure exactly how they define "pressure" but at least two don't fit under any likely definition. Bob

[MrGap92]

H-T: I don't follow the Raiders, but do you happen to know how it is possible (or makes sense?) for them to allow one side of their OL to leave?  Necessity to stay under the cap?  Both guys getting too old?  Already have their replacements?  Bob

I am not sure about their RT, but they did draft Jackson Powers-Johnson to be the RG. Considering Roten is 34, that move makes sense for them. I am not sure who Munford is so I can't speak on him.

[H-Town G-Fan]

H-T: I don't follow the Raiders, but do you happen to know how it is possible (or makes sense?) for them to allow one side of their OL to leave?  Necessity to stay under the cap?  Both guys getting too old?  Already have their replacements?  Bob

They drafted OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this season, notably Jackson Powers-Johnson in the 2nd. Signed veteran Cody Whitehair to play backup G if something goes wrong with the rookie. Looks like they may be counting on a 2021 7th rounder (Thayer Munford) who played well in limited snaps to take over RT. Definitely rolling the dice with youth to save cap, as they made a splash signing of the DT Christian Wilkins.

[H-Town G-Fan]

H-T: Not sure exactly how they define "pressure" but at least two don't fit under any likely definition. Bob

If this is Van Roten's worst its leagues better than what they've gotten over the past few seasons.

[Bob In PA]

They drafted OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this season, notably Jackson Powers-Johnson in the 2nd. Signed veteran Cody Whitehair to play backup G if something goes wrong with the rookie. Looks like they may be counting on a 2021 7th rounder (Thayer Munford) who played well in limited snaps to take over RT. Definitely rolling the dice with youth to save cap, as they made a splash signing of the DT Christian Wilkins.

H-T: I had no idea Munford was on the team (or anywhere). He was one my all-time "sleeper" picks after he lasted until the 7th round. I had since forgotten all about that (and him). Excited to see if he turns out to be a great value pick... this year should tell the tale.  Thank you!  Bob

[Bob In PA]

I am not sure about their RT, but they did draft Jackson Powers-Johnson to be the RG. Considering Roten is 34, that move makes sense for them. I am not sure who Munford is so I can't speak on him.

MrG: Thanks. I know who Munford is. He's from Cincinnati and played for Ohio State. Their coaches thought it was a travesty that he lasted until the final round of the draft, and if he had not been drafted, the Browns were ready to pounce on him in free-agency. Bob

[Ed Vette]

This isn't just a flag on Neal.

[gregf]

I like it. We will still need to draft a guard next year, but we look much improved on paper. Thomas, Runyon, JMS, Van Roten, Elumenor. That's three new starters that all have above average PFF grades

[spiderblue43]

From a relationship experience, both JE and Van Roten make a lot of sense. Bricillo knows them and gives me much more confidence with this OL group, especially with Neal out of the lineup.

[kingm56]

I like it. We will still need to draft a guard next year, but we look much improved on paper. Thomas, Runyon, JMS, Van Roten, Elumenor. That's three new starters that all have above average PFF grades

I appreciate the optimism and acknowledge the line is better than last season, but I still believe we have bottom 5 talent.  In fact, the chatter regarding the OL reminds me of the sentiments expressed when the Giants attempted to retool the line with Glow.  I hold the same position as I did back then, which is to say, the improvements are exaggerated by the fan base.

Elumenor is now playing on his fourth team in 7 years; the NFL is starving for quality tackles, and they don't let even average ones walk. He's a quality swing player, but he doesn't possess the tools to be a plus starter; in a full season, he'll surrender 5+ sacks and 30 pressures. 
Van Roten is playing for his 6th team in 10 years; he's a career journeyman.  Wait until you see him play...he lacks punch and generates zero movement. 
Runyon - In four seasons with the Pack is below, or just at average; His PFF scores: 53, 65, 62, 54.  I'll grant you he's a decent pass blocker, but he's limited in the run game.  He's not bad, but not good either.   

If JMS improves (I think he does), the Giants still need a G and T; because it's rare for the entire OL to be above average, I'm ok with Runyon starting.  As of today, here's how I see the Oline

LT = Top 5...tremendous athlete/player      
LG = Below Average/mediocre
C = Below Average (with the possibility to be above average...fingers crossed)
RG = Well below average
RT = Well below average

At best, we have a D. 

[H-Town G-Fan]

I appreciate the optimism and acknowledge the line is better than last season, but I still believe we have bottom 5 talent.  In fact, the chatter regarding the OL reminds me of the sentiments expressed when the Giants attempted to retool the line with Glow.  I hold the same position as I did back then, which is to say, the improvements are exaggerated by the fan base.

Elumenor is now playing on his fourth team in 7 years; the NFL is starving for quality tackles, and they don't let even average ones walk. He's a quality swing player, but he doesn't possess the tools to be a plus starter; in a full season, he'll surrender 5+ sacks and 30 pressures. 
Van Roten is playing for his 6th team in 10 years; he's a career journeyman.  Wait until you see him play...he lacks punch and generates zero movement. 
Runyon - In four seasons with the Pack is below, or just at average; His PFF scores: 53, 65, 62, 54.  I'll grant you he's a decent pass blocker, but he's limited in the run game.  He's not bad, but not good either.   

If JMS improves (I think he does), the Giants still need a G and T; because it's rare for the entire OL to be above average, I'm ok with Runyon starting.  As of today, here's how I see the Oline

LT = Top 5...tremendous athlete/player      
LG = Below Average/mediocre
C = Below Average (with the possibility to be above average...fingers crossed)
RG = Well below average
RT = Well below average

At best, we have a D. 

Eluemenor and Van Roten aren't long-term solutions--they're solid hands that can help the Giants in the near-term as 2024 may prove to be a pivot or transitional season. If the Giants indeed have to hit the reset button at QB after 2024 but still wanted to try and put together a competent group in 2025, they could use some of that saved cap on a veteran OL and seek a developmental piece in the draft.

[Dumpster Dan]

I appreciate the optimism and acknowledge the line is better than last season, but I still believe we have bottom 5 talent.  In fact, the chatter regarding the OL reminds me of the sentiments expressed when the Giants attempted to retool the line with Glow.  I hold the same position as I did back then, which is to say, the improvements are exaggerated by the fan base.

Elumenor is now playing on his fourth team in 7 years; the NFL is starving for quality tackles, and they don't let even average ones walk. He's a quality swing player, but he doesn't possess the tools to be a plus starter; in a full season, he'll surrender 5+ sacks and 30 pressures. 
Van Roten is playing for his 6th team in 10 years; he's a career journeyman.  Wait until you see him play...he lacks punch and generates zero movement. 
Runyon - In four seasons with the Pack is below, or just at average; His PFF scores: 53, 65, 62, 54.  I'll grant you he's a decent pass blocker, but he's limited in the run game.  He's not bad, but not good either.   

If JMS improves (I think he does), the Giants still need a G and T; because it's rare for the entire OL to be above average, I'm ok with Runyon starting.  As of today, here's how I see the Oline

LT = Top 5...tremendous athlete/player      
LG = Below Average/mediocre
C = Below Average (with the possibility to be above average...fingers crossed)
RG = Well below average
RT = Well below average

At best, we have a D. 

Just to clarify--are you saying, in your opinion we have a D (defense) or are you grading the OL as a D

Thanks

Dumpster Dan

[Bob In PA]

I appreciate the optimism and acknowledge the line is better than last season, but I still believe we have bottom 5 talent.

king: Appreciate in-depth analysis and agree mostly. I disagree that we are bottom five.

It's really difficult (statistically)  to be bottom five anything when 20 percent of the guys (1 of 5) is top five or ten.

The rest is a really nice job. People are forgetting that none of the five are known (particularly) for their run-blocking (mostly for good reason lol). I believe our pass blocking will prove to be (absent injuries) in or around middle of the pack.  At this point, what to expect from our run blocking is a complete mystery, but if I had to take a guess I'd say we're going to be unlikely to make third and one or two, or to score TD's on the ground from inside the 5-yd-line, AND... it will take a lot of deception and scheming to make even some basic run-plays work without Barkley.  Just a guess.

Bob

[kingm56]

Eluemenor and Van Roten aren't long-term solutions--they're solid hands that can help the Giants in the near-term as 2024 may prove to be a pivot or transitional season. If the Giants indeed have to hit the reset button at QB after 2024 but still wanted to try and put together a competent group in 2025, they could use some of that saved cap on a veteran OL and seek a developmental piece in the draft.

I completely agree, H; I was responding to the notion the Giants only need to draft a G next season.  IMO, the entire right side needs to be replaced next season; moreover, as you stated, the current oline is only a stopgap, and not a significant improvement over the unit fielded over the last few seasons. 

[H-Town G-Fan]

I completely agree, H; I was responding to the notion the Giants only need to draft a G next season.  IMO, the entire right side needs to be replaced next season; moreover, as you stated, the current oline is only a stopgap, and not a significant improvement over the unit fielded over the last few seasons.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm of the same ultimate opinion as you (this unit needs an overhaul in the next few seasons), though I might be a little higher on the near-term returns (I think they could be an average unit this season).