My early thoughts on the team after a week in camp

[MightyGiants]

It's early, and we still have a lot to learn about the team.  That said, here are my early takes.

Quarterback- Daniel Jones struggled early, but he seems to be making progress.  I think the real key for DJ is to improve his consistency.  He flashes, now he needs to make the flashes the norm.  I think it's worth noting that DJ is not even at 9 months off his ACL, which is pretty damn impressive.  Lock is disappointing.  He simply has not given the team any reason to have a QB 1 competition.  In fact, there seems to be little difference between him and DeVito (who looks improved over last year's camp).

Wide Receiver-  Nabers looks to be a superstar in the making.  Hyatt and Robinson look improved, and the starting trio look pretty damn impressive.  The WR leader of the previous 2 seasons, Slayton, looks to be WR 4 at this point.  I think Gunner is impressed as a wide receiver.  Ford-Wheton was impressive on specials, and I thought I was a leader for one of the final spots.  Unfortunately, in warmups, I thought he had suffered a setback (the prior two practices he just had a patella band on the leg he had torn his ACL in the prior camp, but on the hottest day, he went back to a full leg sleeve, plus he was doing special movement exercises during warmups) as he left practice early.  Beyond that, it's a bunched-up competition.  I would guess Hodgins or maybe Robinson would be potential final WRs.  I am always mindful that the final WRs on the roster tend to make it on the STs acumen rather than their WR acumen.

Tight End-  Exciting wide open competition. Most of the TEs have played well (not great but well).  I think Manhertz, Theo, and Bellinger are the likely three.  Cager was having a good camp but the hamstring issue is a real setback.  Beyond that, the rest seem interchangeable.

Running Back  It's tough to judge running backs in training camp due to the lack of tackling.  That said, Singletary has looked good.  Tracy has looked good if you ignore a couple of fumbles.  Turbo Miller is as fast as advertised.  I have been underwhelmed by Grey.  Cordin was nicked up for a bit, and I haven't seen much from him. Saylors is a long shot as he hasn't impressed.

Offensive Line-  I am comfortable with the 4 starters (Thomas, Eluemunor, Runyan, Van Roten).  JMS was hurt all week.  Schlottmann and Morrissey look interchangeable (minus Schlottman puking his guts out yesterday) and like backups, not starting centers.  Even before Ezudu got hurt (it is unknown why he was carted off), he wasn't looking like a player you wanted taking snaps.  Stinnie is okay.  It seems like the team would prefer to have the backup center come from the guards.  UDRFA Kubas has impressed.  My biggest concern is swing tackle.  I am not sure who is going to man that critical position.  The rest of the guys played like 2nd and 3rd stringers. 


Defensive Tackle- I am feeling a bit better about the position (I was concerned about a lack of a replacement for Leonard Williams).  I could see the Giants keeping 5 with Dex, Nacho, Jordan Riley or Jordan Phillips, Ryder Anderson, and UDFA Elijah Chatman (aka Baby Bison)


Edge Rusher-   I think the Giants will seek to claim an edge rusher on waivers.  The starting three have been impressive in camp (Burns, KT, Ojulari).  After that, there is a huge drop-off.  Boogie is underwhelmed, Fox has been MIA since a hamstring injury, and the others are not even worth mentioning.

Inside Linebacker- Bobby Okereke has been outstanding. McFadden has received very few snaps (reports that he had an injury in the spring). In McFadden's absence, Dyontae Johnson has really shined. Beyond that, much like RB, it's better to evaluate LBers when there is tackling. Coughlin and Muasau are likely fighting for that ST/ILB spot. Simmons has found a nickel LB hybrid role and looked good in camp.

Cornerback-  This is my biggest area of concern.  I am expecting the Giants to bring in a veteran at some point to shore up the CB2 position.  Banks has looked fine.  Flott has struggled on the outside.  Phillips has looked good in the slot.  Hawkins hasn't shown much in this camp.  Former Jag's starter, Tre Herndon, hasn't shown much.  McCloud has played all over.  The thing with McCloud is he is a limited athlete.  Wherever you play him, he will not give up the big play, but he also will give up a few more receptions than you would like.


Safety- This has been a surprising bounty position (which is good considering that Bowen values safeties in his defense).  You have solid players in Pennock, Belton, and Owens.  I have no reason not to believe Nubin will be good as well, so that is 4 solid safeties not even counting veteran Mills who is on the PUP.

Kickers-  Not feeling comfortable.  Gillian has been feast or famine with his punting, and Gano hasn't shown me that I shouldn't feel comfortable with him being fully back from the knee injury that put him on IR.

[sxdxca38]

It's early, and we still have a lot to learn about the team.  That said, here are my early takes.

Quarterback- Daniel Jones struggled early, but he seems to be making progress.  I think the real key for DJ is to improve his consistency.  He flashes, now he needs to make the flashes the norm.  I think it's worth noting that DJ is not even at 9 months off his ACL, which is pretty damn impressive.  Lock is disappointing.  He simply has not given the team any reason to have a QB 1 competition.  In fact, there seems to be little difference between him and DeVito (who looks improved over last year's camp).

Wide Receiver-  Nabers looks to be a superstar in the making.  Hyatt and Robinson look improved, and the starting trio look pretty damn impressive.  The WR leader of the previous 2 seasons, Slayton, looks to be WR 4 at this point.  I think Gunner is impressed as a wide receiver.  Ford-Wheton was impressive on specials, and I thought I was a leader for one of the final spots.  Unfortunately, in warmups, I thought he had suffered a setback (the prior two practices he just had a patella band on the leg he had torn his ACL in the prior camp, but on the hottest day, he went back to a full leg sleeve, plus he was doing special movement exercises during warmups) as he left practice early.  Beyond that, it's a bunched-up competition.  I would guess Hodgins or maybe Robinson would be potential final WRs.  I am always mindful that the final WRs on the roster tend to make it on the STs acumen rather than their WR acumen.

Tight End-  Exciting wide open competition. Most of the TEs have played well (not great but well).  I think Manhertz, Theo, and Bellinger are the likely three.  Cager was having a good camp but the hamstring issue is a real setback.  Beyond that, the rest seem interchangeable.

Running Back  It's tough to judge running backs in training camp due to the lack of tackling.  That said, Singletary has looked good.  Tracy has looked good if you ignore a couple of fumbles.  Turbo Miller is as fast as advertised.  I have been underwhelmed by Grey.  Cordin was nicked up for a bit, and I haven't seen much from him. Saylors is a long shot as he hasn't impressed.

Offensive Line-  I am comfortable with the 4 starters (Thomas, Eluemunor, Runyan, Van Roten).  JMS was hurt all week.  Schlottmann and Morrissey look interchangeable (minus Schlottman puking his guts out yesterday) and like backups, not starting centers.  Even before Ezudu got hurt (it is unknown why he was carted off), he wasn't looking like a player you wanted taking snaps.  Stinnie is okay.  It seems like the team would prefer to have the backup center come from the guards.  UDRFA Kubas has impressed.  My biggest concern is swing tackle.  I am not sure who is going to man that critical position.  The rest of the guys played like 2nd and 3rd stringers. 


Defensive Tackle- I am feeling a bit better about the position (I was concerned about a lack of a replacement for Leonard Williams).  I could see the Giants keeping 5 with Dex, Nacho, Jordan Riley or Jordan Phillips, Ryder Anderson, and UDFA Elijah Chatman (aka Baby Bison)


Edge Rusher-   I think the Giants will seek to claim an edge rusher on waivers.  The starting three have been impressive in camp (Burns, KT, Ojulari).  After that, there is a huge drop-off.  Boogie is underwhelmed, Fox has been MIA since a hamstring injury, and the others are not even worth mentioning.

Inside Linebacker- Bobby Okereke has been outstanding. McFadden has received very few snaps (reports that he had an injury in the spring). In McFadden's absence, Dyontae Johnson has really shined. Beyond that, much like RB, it's better to evaluate LBers when there is tackling. Coughlin and Muasau are likely fighting for that ST/ILB spot. Simmons has found a nickel LB hybrid role and looked good in camp.

Cornerback-  This is my biggest area of concern.  I am expecting the Giants to bring in a veteran at some point to shore up the CB2 position.  Banks has looked fine.  Flott has struggled on the outside.  Phillips has looked good in the slot.  Hawkins hasn't shown much in this camp.  Former Jag's starter, Tre Herndon, hasn't shown much.  McCloud has played all over.  The thing with McCloud is he is a limited athlete.  Wherever you play him, he will not give up the big play, but he also will give up a few more receptions than you would like.


Safety- This has been a surprising bounty position (which is good considering that Bowen values safeties in his defense).  You have solid players in Pennock, Belton, and Owens.  I have no reason not to believe Nubin will be good as well, so that is 4 solid safeties not even counting veteran Mills who is on the PUP.

Kickers-  Not feeling comfortable.  Gillian has been feast or famine with his punting, and Gano hasn't shown me that I shouldn't feel comfortable with him being fully back from the knee injury that put him on IR.

Good write up Rich

[DaveBrown74]

Awesome notes Rich.

I will say, I have very little knowledge of what has transpired at camp other what I have picked up from you and others here (which, thankfully, has been substantial) and bits and bobs with quick articles and a few of the twitter guys many of us keep an eye on. So this is very helpful.

A few questions/comments:

-I don't want to spend too much time on Jones in this post, because as we all know there is already far more than enough discussion on him here on any given day. My question is, do you think there is a correlation between the ACL and his handful of days that he looked really bad this week? If so, should he even be out there? Also, if so, why did he suddenly look better in subsequent days? If he was just rusty, but the injury wasn't the issue, and he's looking better now, then fair enough I guess, but the degree to which he was struggling seemed pretty alarming.

-I am of the opinion that Lock is a significant downgrade from Taylor. The career numbers certainly scream that. I think the Giants wanted to move on from Taylor due to his own injury propensity, knowing how fragile their starter is. Lock isn't good at all, but he seems a lot more durable than Taylor. Despite the murmurings out there, I feel Lock presents very little serious competition for a healthy Jones. If he does, that's a very serious problem for Jones and probably confirms beyond any doubt that this will be his last year with the team.

-I appreciated the WR notes, because I've been curious about the play of Wan'Dale and Hyatt in camp. You used the term "improved." Has one looked better than the other? My view is that one of these two guys (ideally both, but I'd settle for one) needs to step up with a legitimate breakout year. To me, Wan'Dale has some nice ability and could become a solid slot guy if he can stay healthy, but I don't see stardom with him. Hyatt to me is a total wildcard. I really don't know what to think with him. Slayton is very appealing as a number four. Considering he's been a high as our WR1 (when guys have been hurt) and frequently a WR2, and he's kept his job, having him as the fourth option seems great to me. He's not any sort of great receiver, but he's still a pretty capable NFL player, and by Giants' standards he's been pretty dependable on the health front. If Hyatt and Robinson both play well enough to relegate Slay to the 4th option spot, the unit is in very good shape. Notice I have not even brought up Nabers (until now). Little needs to be said. It is very obvious he is going to be an elite player.

-Good to hear that you're less concerned about DT than before. I have also been concerned about our depth at that position. I do feel they're going to probably need to draft one next year, but if they have enough to get by on the depth front this year, that's good news.

-Corner is a bona fide problem. Even if Banks plays very well (not certain), it's still a significant problem position. The good news is that we're likely to have our best pass rush in a number of years this year (not saying much I know), plus we figure to still be pretty good at safety despite the departure of X, so the corner deficiencies might not be too exposed with our more zone-based approach this year. Still, it is a big area of concern, and adding a veteran who can still play at a reasonable level on a one year contract seems like a good idea if they can make it happen. Especially if guys like McCloud and Hawkins aren't distinguishing themselves in August.

-Interesting on edge rusher. I don't know what sort of funds we're going to have to deploy for August cutdowns, but unless Azeez is significantly injured I'm not sure this would be the area I'd deploy scarce funds. Though I appreciate it's a top-heavy group.

-The RB room is flat out bad. Singletary is a complementary guy, not a lead back, and nobody else is proven. We're basically hoping one of our day three guys or UDFAs steps up and is capable of being a solid number two behind a decent but not great back who can't really carry the load himself. It's a really weak room, and that's just the reality. My hope is that better line play can lead to a functional ground game, and the other good news is that RB is not a difficult position to address in the draft if you're willing to use a day two or even fourth round pick on it, but right now we are very weak here, and there is really no way around that fact. Even if Tracey steps up and is interesting it's still a poor group relative to the rest of the league. It might be the worst RB room in the league right now. Unless they feel very confident in Tracey, Gray, or Turbo being a clear number two, I'd probably consider bringing someone in late on the cheap. You can't have only one NFL player on your RB depth chart.

[MightyGiants]

Awesome notes Rich.

I will say, I have very little knowledge of what has transpired at camp other what I have picked up from you and others here (which, thankfully, has been substantial) and bits and bobs with quick articles and a few of the twitter guys many of us keep an eye on. So this is very helpful.

A few questions/comments:

1-I don't want to spend too much time on Jones in this post, because as we all know there is already far more than enough discussion on him here on any given day. My question is, do you think there is a correlation between the ACL and his handful of days that he looked really bad this week? If so, should he even be out there? Also, if so, why did he suddenly look better in subsequent days? If he was just rusty, but the injury wasn't the issue, and he's looking better now, then fair enough I guess, but the degree to which he was struggling seemed pretty alarming.

2-I am of the opinion that Lock is a significant downgrade from Taylor. The career numbers certainly scream that. I think the Giants wanted to move on from Taylor due to his own injury propensity, knowing how fragile their starter is. Lock isn't good at all, but he seems a lot more durable than Taylor. Despite the murmurings out there, I feel Lock presents very little serious competition for a healthy Jones. If he does, that's a very serious problem for Jones and probably confirms beyond any doubt that this will be his last year with the team.

3-I appreciated the WR notes, because I've been curious about the play of Wan'Dale and Hyatt in camp. You used the term "improved." Has one looked better than the other? My view is that one of these two guys (ideally both, but I'd settle for one) needs to step up with a legitimate breakout year. To me, Wan'Dale has some nice ability and could become a solid slot guy if he can stay healthy, but I don't see stardom with him. Hyatt to me is a total wildcard. I really don't know what to think with him. Slayton is very appealing as a number four. Considering he's been a high as our WR1 (when guys have been hurt) and frequently a WR2, and he's kept his job, having him as the fourth option seems great to me. He's not any sort of great receiver, but he's still a pretty capable NFL player, and by Giants' standards he's been pretty dependable on the health front. If Hyatt and Robinson both play well enough to relegate Slay to the 4th option spot, the unit is in very good shape. Notice I have not even brought up Nabers (until now). Little needs to be said. It is very obvious he is going to be an elite player.

4-Good to hear that you're less concerned about DT than before. I have also been concerned about our depth at that position. I do feel they're going to probably need to draft one next year, but if they have enough to get by on the depth front this year, that's good news.

5-Corner is a bona fide problem. Even if Banks plays very well (not certain), it's still a significant problem position. The good news is that we're likely to have our best pass rush in a number of years this year (not saying much I know), plus we figure to still be pretty good at safety despite the departure of X, so the corner deficiencies might not be too exposed with our more zone-based approach this year. Still, it is a big area of concern, and adding a veteran who can still play at a reasonable level on a one year contract seems like a good idea if they can make it happen. Especially if guys like McCloud and Hawkins aren't distinguishing themselves in August.

6-Interesting on edge rusher. I don't know what sort of funds we're going to have to deploy for August cutdowns, but unless Azeez is significantly injured I'm not sure this would be the area I'd deploy scarce funds. Though I appreciate it's a top-heavy group.

7-The RB room is flat out bad. Singletary is a complementary guy, not a lead back, and nobody else is proven. We're basically hoping one of our day three guys or UDFAs steps up and is capable of being a solid number two behind a decent but not great back who can't really carry the load himself. It's a really weak room, and that's just the reality. My hope is that better line play can lead to a functional ground game, and the other good news is that RB is not a difficult position to address in the draft if you're willing to use a day two or even fourth round pick on it, but right now we are very weak here, and there is really no way around that fact. Even if Tracey steps up and is interesting it's still a poor group relative to the rest of the league. It might be the worst RB room in the league right now. Unless they feel very confident in Tracey, Gray, or Turbo being a clear number two, I'd probably consider bringing someone in late on the cheap. You can't have only one NFL player on your RB depth chart.

1) It's hard to say.  As someone still rehabbing from injury, I can say firsthand that there is a psychological issue with injuries.  You need to learn to trust your injured body part.  The other thing to consider is that DJ had to devote some of the time he would have been working to improve on rehabbing his injury (that often is a major time drain).  Beyond all that, it's not like DJ hasn't looked bad before.  So it's possible DJ is shaking off rust and was regaining trust of his body or not.  I believe only time will tell.

2) In my opinion, if Lock was out there shining, there would be a QB competition.  I think it's telling that Lock didn't seize his opportunity

3) Hyatt and WonDale play very different roles and have different styles.  I find it difficult to draw direct comparisons.  All I can say is I like what I have seen from both of them.

7) I will wait for a couple of PS games before really saying too much about the RBs.

[DaveBrown74]

1) It's hard to say.  As someone still rehabbing from injury, I can say firsthand that there is a psychological issue with injuries.  You need to learn to trust your injured body part.  The other thing to consider is that DJ had to devote some of the time he would have been working to improve on rehabbing his injury (that often is a major time drain).  Beyond all that, it's not like DJ hasn't looked bad before.  So it's possible DJ is shaking off rust and was regaining trust of his body or not.  I believe only time will tell.

All sound points here. As I have said before, I am reading very little into camp performances, especially for established veterans. But the above points definitely raise some sound possible explanations for what has been going on.

2) In my opinion, if Lock was out there shining, there would be a QB competition.  I think it's telling that Lock didn't seize his opportunity

Interesting. Considering how bad Lock has been as a pro, this reads as a pretty big indictment of Jones. It's basically saying that a few days of camp play in July could threaten a healthy Jones' status as the starter. In other words, that the data we already have on both players in real games (which clearly points to Jones being the better player) would be challenged by a very small data set in camp play is an interesting theory that, if true, strongly suggests that they're pretty down on Jones overall.

3) Hyatt and WonDale play very different roles and have different styles.  I find it difficult to draw direct comparisons.  All I can say is I like what I have seen from both of them.

Good to hear. I look forward to getting eyes on both of them in preseason play. Of course, it will really be all about how they and everyone else look when the real games start.

7) I will wait for a couple of PS games before really saying too much about the RBs.

Perfectly fair attitude to take. Still, on paper, I think it's hard to make a credible case that this is even a mediocre RB room. The odds of the 6th round-picked Tracey being a quality NFL RB2 as a rookie are not high, even though I like him and think he's interesting. Outside of him you have Gray, who has not looked good at all either last year or in camp, and an undrafted guy who nobody knows much about other than his being an inspiring story. Plus Singletary himself is an average at best RB1. It's hard for me to feel even decent about this position under almost any circumstances. Many teams have two RBs who are better than Singletary, and some have three who are. And most teams have three RBs who have all proven they're at least functional NFL players. We don't even have two.

[EDjohnst1981]

Great write up, Rich.

Thanks!

[MightyGiants]

All sound points here. As I have said before, I am reading very little into camp performances, especially for established veterans. But the above points definitely raise some sound possible explanations for what has been going on.

Interesting. Considering how bad Lock has been as a pro, this reads as a pretty big indictment of Jones. It's basically saying that a few days of camp play in July could threaten a healthy Jones' status as the starter. In other words, that the data we already have on both players in real games (which clearly points to Jones being the better player) would be challenged by a very small data set in camp play is an interesting theory that, if true, strongly suggests that they're pretty down on Jones overall.

Good to hear. I look forward to getting eyes on both of them in preseason play. Of course, it will really be all about how they and everyone else look when the real games start.

Perfectly fair attitude to take. Still, on paper, I think it's hard to make a credible case that this is even a mediocre RB room. The odds of the 6th round-picked Tracey being a quality NFL RB2 as a rookie are not high, even though I like him and think he's interesting. Outside of him you have Gray, who has not looked good at all either last year or in camp, and an undrafted guy who nobody knows much about other than his being an inspiring story. Plus Singletary himself is an average at best RB1. It's hard for me to feel even decent about this position under almost any circumstances. Many teams have two RBs who are better than Singletary, and some have three who are. And most teams have three RBs who have all proven they're at least functional NFL players. We don't even have two.

Jeff,

When you have such a young (at least in terms of NFL experience) RB room, I am not sure how much value "on paper" really has.   There is much we need to learn about players like Gray, Miller, and Tracy

[Bob In PA]

Rich @MightyGiants or Ed @Ed Vette or anyone else who has been to training camp this year...

Not a big deal (I'll do it w/the all-22 after each preseason game) but did you focus at all on whether:

(1) any of the WR's are capable of blocking for run plays? or
(2) any of the RB's are capable of pass-protecting?

Bob

[Painter]

That's a most useful summary and analysis, Rich. Much obliged. That it reflects your observations and impressions with little or no projecting and predicting makes it all the more impressive for me.

Cheers! 

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Excellent analysis Rich and I thank you for taking the time to put it together for us. My only real concerns are CB2 and a couple of unfortunate injuries...I want JMS back in there, taking reps and gelling with his teammates as he will be calling plays for the line. Good to hear that Simmons is looking good. And yeah, hopefully our kicking game comes together. All in all, looking forward to a better year than last year. Coaching and health will be key

[Ed Vette]

Rich @MightyGiants or Ed @Ed Vette or anyone else who has been to training camp this year...

Not a big deal (I'll do it w/the all-22 after each preseason game) but did you focus at all on whether:

(1) any of the WR's are capable of blocking for run plays? or
(2) any of the RB's are capable of pass-protecting?

Bob

There was a drill specifically for TE's, WR's and RB's blocking downfield. I don't know how often they have done it as I've only been to two camps but it's something I would work on every practice.

I try not to take away too much from camp practices as I have in the past. The players don't go all out in the trenches, so RB blocking in pass protection is just on the surface of what they can do. There is less blitzing too and the heat/humidity factor has been brutal.

[kartanoman]

Thank you for your open and honest observations, Rich @MightyGiants .

When you have even noted the punter and kicker do not look up to par, and there are no camp legs to push them around, that gives me cause for concern and, especially, with Gano.

Even before having my plant knee replaced last year, grinding bone on bone, I could still kick and had full range of motion on the bad knee. Post-op, my days of kicking are officially done. The mechanics are no longer there to perform the craft and this is what concerns me most about Gano. No matter how top of the line these surgeons claim to be, they can never make a kicker's planting or kicking leg exactly like it once was. The same thing happened to Brad Daluiso, after his knee was injured in 1999. He was a complete shell of his old self in 2000 and the Giants had to add Jaret Holmes to the roster for kickoff duties.

Hopefully, he's only taking it easy for now and will start ramping up soon. But history, and my own personal experience, dictates the odds may not be in his favor and that Daboll had better have a contingency plan available in case Gano struggles.

As for the Scottish Hammer, WYSIWYG. By all accounts and measures, last season was his best performance of his career to date. I personally have been critical of Daboll for not adding a young punter for competition, but I would wait until the pre-season games before evaluating Gillen.

One final Kicker's Korner thought of the day. Gano will no longer be kicking off and driving the ball through the end zone as he's done consistently in the past. Perhaps he was working on some kicking concepts that coincide with the new kickoff rules that are part of the Giants' new special team's strategy?

What do you think, Rich @MightyGiants ?

Peace!

[Ed Vette]

Good report Rich.

My take on Jones is the same but I will underscore that he has rehabbed well beyond a normal person but he's not quite there for the demands of the QB position. I also have felt he has some degree of shell shock. It remains to be seen if he's broken or not.

I believe Jalin Hyatt will have a big year. He's so much improved in getting off the line and breaking containment. His routes are crisper and more fluid. I suspect that Slayton may become trade bait. I hope not because injuries happen and they need the depth. Hodgins looks much better in route running too. Seeing Nabors ten feet away from me, I was able to see how cut this player is. He's like a thoroughbred race horse. Think the Saquon Barkley of Receivers. It's going to take a special CB to cover him or even tackle him. I expect some nice YAC by this man.

I see Burns and Thibs as dominating. If Ojulari steps up, that will be a nice rotation. I agree with Rich, one piece missing.

I'm hoping that Hawkins the third will take that outside QB 2 position. Flott doesn't cut it but Holmes looks better. The improved competition at WR should elevate this young group of DB's. Again I agree, a player away.

As for the TE's, no wow factors so far but we all expect more from Theo and Bellinger.

Can't evaluate the RB's until at least the preseason games and Singletary isn't going to go all out until the regular season.

One thing for sure is that this team will be in much better physical condition than last year. I'm looking forward to Monday's joint practice.

[DaveBrown74]

Jeff,

When you have such a young (at least in terms of NFL experience) RB room, I am not sure how much value "on paper" really has.  There is much we need to learn about players like Gray, Miller, and Tracy

Rich,

That is again fair, although RB is a young man's position. RBs who are good generally show you something as rookies. Gray did not.

As for Turbo and Tyrone, I agree we can't judge them until we see them in game action, but we're talking about a mid-late day three guy and an undrafted guy here. Moreover, Turbo is 25, and Tracy turns 25 during the season. Most RBs come into the league at 21 or 22.

With all the above said, I agree it's premature to judge the RB room in a firmly conclusive way. I didn't intend to do that. I'm just not especially optimistic about this unit based on what I know today. The mere fact alone that Singletary is our top RB is less than ideal. He has only carried the ball 200 times once in his career (216). He's a complementary/committee guy.

[MightyGiants]

Thank you for your open and honest observations, Rich @MightyGiants .

When you have even noted the punter and kicker do not look up to par, and there are no camp legs to push them around, that gives me cause for concern and, especially, with Gano.

Even before having my plant knee replaced last year, grinding bone on bone, I could still kick and had full range of motion on the bad knee. Post-op, my days of kicking are officially done. The mechanics are no longer there to perform the craft and this is what concerns me most about Gano. No matter how top of the line these surgeons claim to be, they can never make a kicker's planting or kicking leg exactly like it once was. The same thing happened to Brad Daluiso, after his knee was injured in 1999. He was a complete shell of his old self in 2000 and the Giants had to add Jaret Holmes to the roster for kickoff duties.

Hopefully, he's only taking it easy for now and will start ramping up soon. But history, and my own personal experience, dictates the odds may not be in his favor and that Daboll had better have a contingency plan available in case Gano struggles.

As for the Scottish Hammer, WYSIWYG. By all accounts and measures, last season was his best performance of his career to date. I personally have been critical of Daboll for not adding a young punter for competition, but I would wait until the pre-season games before evaluating Gillen.

One final Kicker's Korner thought of the day. Gano will no longer be kicking off and driving the ball through the end zone as he's done consistently in the past. Perhaps he was working on some kicking concepts that coincide with the new kickoff rules that are part of the Giants' new special team's strategy?

What do you think, Rich @MightyGiants ?

Peace!

At this point, I need see how they do in the PS games