Amani goes off on Caleb Williams

[Philosophers]

I'll say it again.  Clean it up yourself Caleb.  Quiet leadership.

[DaveBrown74]

Did you watch the clip? I didn't get the sense that he was actually in the locker room and went around telling guys to clean up.

I watched the Toomer clip. I haven't watched anything else.

BTW I don't think this is some huge deal either way. Ultimately all that matters is how this guy (and the whole team) plays. This is summer noise otherwise.

I also don't know precisely how he worded what he said or what the exact circumstances/context were. I think I have the general idea though, and my point is simply that I think it's a bit early for him to start puffing his chest out and taking a "I run s--t around here now" posture in the presence of guys like DJ Moore, Tremaine Edmunds, Montez Sweat, Keenan Allen etc. How he phrased it is clearly relevant, and we don't have the exact info. If he was respectful and speaking collectively about the need to keep the locker area clean, including himself, then fine. Not a huge deal, and if that's literally all it was, then I agree that Toomer might need to chill out a little. If he was targeting a few guys and being like "Hey man, clean your s--t up", while Williams may have been "right", I just think it might be a bit early to start doing stuff like that. If he was talking to other rookies or camp bodies then I'd feel a bit differently. There's a lot of context with something like this that's relevant, and I don't think we have it all.

[T200]

I watched the Toomer clip. I haven't watched anything else.

BTW I don't think this is some huge deal either way. Ultimately all that matters is how this guy (and the whole team) plays. This is summer noise otherwise.

I also don't know precisely how he worded what he said or what the exact circumstances/context were. I think I have the general idea though, and my point is simply that I think it's a bit early for him to start puffing his chest out and taking a "I run s--t around here now" posture in the presence of guys like DJ Moore, Tremaine Edmunds, Montez Sweat, Keenan Allen etc. How he phrased it is clearly relevant, and we don't have the exact info. If he was respectful and speaking collectively about the need to keep the locker area clean, including himself, then fine. Not a huge deal, and if that's literally all it was, then I agree that Toomer might need to chill out a little. If he was targeting a few guys and being like "Hey man, clean your s--t up", while Williams may have been "right", I just think it might be a bit early to start doing stuff like that. If he was talking to other rookies or camp bodies then I'd feel a bit differently. There's a lot of context with something like this that's relevant, and I don't think we have it all.

Sorry, DB, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the second clip with Bears Safety Kevin Byard who was actually in the huddle relayed what was said and how it was said. There was no chest puffing or any of that.

Love Toomer but he was way off base.

[DaveBrown74]

Sorry, DB, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the second clip with Bears Safety Kevin Byard who was actually in the huddle relayed what was said and how it was said. There was no chest puffing or any of that.

Love Toomer but he was way off base.

Fair enough T.

As a side point, I'm actually fascinated by the Bears and Williams and curious to see how this all works out. I have mixed feelings about the guy myself (prior to this story I mean). On the one hand is talent is very obvious, and I have been impressed by him even going back to when he was on the Sooners. He has tremendous ability and arm talent.

On the other hand, as an ND fan, I remember watching him look awful in his game in South Bend last year and generally underwhelm in bigger games against good defenses. He did rack up a ton of yards and TDs against the San Jose States of the world.

He has also, at times, exhibited diva-like tendencies, which can often not translate well. We haven't seen this sort of thing from guys like Mahomes and Allen when they were prospects. The world is changing though and the fact that these guys are now millionaires when they get out of college has an impact.

I think he's very talented but I'll be curious to see how he handles adversity in the NFL.

One thing I can say is he doesn't have a ton of excuses. Being able to come into the league with DJ Moore, Odunze, Keenan Allen, and Cole Kmet around you is pretty unusual for a player going to the team that had the first pick (which they got from Carolina). Plus the 11th ranked O line per PFF. He has the tools around him to perform at a good level right out of the gates. I'll be interested to see how it goes.

[T200]

I don't follow college ball, but, like you, I'm interested to see how he does as well.

Rich has always talked about having a good foundation for a young QB and it looks like the Bears have put solid pieces in place for him to take off, at least on paper.

If he's already got a veteran like Byard (who isn't even on his side of the ball) in his corner before a regular game is played, if he starts off well, his play will garner the respect from the rest who aren't there yet.

Others have posted that his play will determine the amount of respect he gets. I agree with that.

[Ed Vette]

Fair enough T.

As a side point, I'm actually fascinated by the Bears and Williams and curious to see how this all works out. I have mixed feelings about the guy myself (prior to this story I mean). On the one hand is talent is very obvious, and I have been impressed by him even going back to when he was on the Sooners. He has tremendous ability and arm talent.

On the other hand, as an ND fan, I remember watching him look awful in his game in South Bend last year and generally underwhelm in bigger games against good defenses. He did rack up a ton of yards and TDs against the San Jose States of the world.

He has also, at times, exhibited diva-like tendencies, which can often not translate well. We haven't seen this sort of thing from guys like Mahomes and Allen when they were prospects. The world is changing though and the fact that these guys are now millionaires when they get out of college has an impact.

I think he's very talented but I'll be curious to see how he handles adversity in the NFL.

One thing I can say is he doesn't have a ton of excuses. Being able to come into the league with DJ Moore, Odunze, Keenan Allen, and Cole Kmet around you is pretty unusual for a player going to the team that had the first pick (which they got from Carolina). Plus the 11th ranked O line per PFF. He has the tools around him to perform at a good level right out of the gates. I'll be interested to see how it goes.

I had expected him to be the biggest bust of this draft. That said, I'll be rooting for him when he's not playing the Giants or Bo Nix. Talent should not be wasted.

[kartanoman]

An interesting case study when many of us sit down, share our opinions, explain why, and it is the reason I truly love and enjoy communicating and sharing thoughts, opinions and even feelings with each of you in this respectful, family-like community.

Well done, all!

Peace!

[DaveBrown74]

An interesting case study when many of us sit down, share our opinions, explain why, and it is the reason I truly love and enjoy communicating and sharing thoughts, opinions and even feelings with each of you in this respectful, family-like community.

Well done, all!

Peace!

I always love hearing differing opinions on things. Sometimes they get me to reconsider my stance, or perhaps illuminate that I may have missed an important detail or two. Other times I simply disagree. Either way I think it's healthy and interesting. An echo-chamber of constant group-think is frankly boring to me.

[AZGiantFan]

He also could have just cleaned it up himself which would have helped the custodians and also not said anything to the vets.  Quiet humble leadership

When you are a rookie you develop leadership by your actions not by nagging the veterans like Mom - clean up your room.  So I agree with you.

[AZGiantFan]

I think I'm a Caleb Williams fan now, good on him.  This isn't the same as an entry level employee jumping out of his lane. This is the new franchise QB and leader.  I still love Toomer but smh.

All that matters is how he plays.  If they win that locker room will be pristine, if not then oh well.

I don't think you automatically become a leader by virtue of your draft slot.  You earn it with your actions, on and off the field.  Not your words.  IMO

[Philosophers]

When you are a rookie you develop leadership by your actions not by nagging the veterans like Mom - clean up your room.  So I agree with you.

Yeah set the example, not dictate it.