Daniel Jones Derangement Syndrome

[Bob In PA]

This post is for our members (and visitors) who are afflicted with JDS (Jones Derangement Syndrome).

I do it out of respect for the viewpoints of those members who are already "done" with him, hoping they can better enjoy the season (although you would rather see someone else at QB) by understanding what he was up against last year. If he's granted the grace of one final bit of "blind faith" I think more can be gotten out of this season than just "tolerating" the situation for another year.

Won't bore you with any specifics. The most important part of the link below (Schmelk's interview with Robert Mays, a truly knowledgeable pod-caster/writer employed by The Athletic) lasts ONLY FIVE MINUTES (the first five) of the long interview and IMO it will give a point of reference to anyone willing to listen with an open mind. The guys go through Jones' six games from last season and explain why no QB would have had a chance of succeeding.

Bob  https://www.giants.com/video/giants-huddle-robert-mays

PS. IMO Jones was lucky to get hurt early. If he'd played all 17 games he might be dead now.

[MightyGiants]

To this topic, Tyler Dunn has done 4 long-form (pay-wall) articles about Jones and the Giants.

If you go to the 8-minute mark, Art and Tyler talk about Jones and the mystery where those (including players) mock Jones, but those who play with him and know him as a teammate love him.


The whole video is good, but Jones starts at the 8:00-minute mark.

[MightyGiants]

Regardless of the counterpoints, fans are seeing this quite often.



When you consider NFL team executives and coaches have Jones ranked 23 out of 30, having the Giant's QB situation the 3rd worst seems like an exercise in bias.

[jgrangers2]

Regardless of the counterpoints, fans are seeing this quite often.


When you consider NFL team executives and coaches have Jones ranked 23 out of 30, having the Giant's QB situation the 3rd worst seems like an exercise in bias.

There's a few things worth noting here.

• The original list only has 30 QBs on it and doesn't include any of the rookies. Of the 6 teams that took QBs in the first round, only three had QBs on that list. Despite Sam Darnold and Jacoby Brissett being at the bottom of that list, I doubt those same executives would take the Giants' situation over the Vikings or Patriots.
• Guys like Anthony Richardson, Will Levis and Bryce Young were listed slightly below Jones. However, like the rookies, those guys are on their initial deals and provide much better opportunity for their teams to build around them.
• One of the two teams above us has two QBs on Sando's list and one is listed at 22 to Jones' 23

Ultimately, you shouldn't expect consistent answers when looking at two lists that are built off of different questions

[Bob In PA]

Rich: I agree with inclusion of the phrase "some of which was his own doing" in describing Jones' issues.

I say that notwithstanding that those two guys are making the same point (generally speaking).

To state the inverse of this point, I watch a lot of Mahomes' games over and over. He is a great QB, but he's also a very lucky guy, not only because he was drafted into a perfect situation with a top-notch head coach and stable organization, but also because he has a couple of unbelievable personnel to bail him out when he makes a mistake (and he does make his fair share).

Bob

[Jolly Blue Giant]

There's a whole lot of things driving this phenomena...group mentality, frustration with the Giants, horrible media criticism (who know so much that they aren't coaching football [at any level], but blabbing opinions that you hear in the neighborhood bar, playing behind an offensive line that literally sucks and puts the QB in friggin danger every time he touches the ball, etc. Talk about every obstacle possible to derail a young man. Then throw in, throngs of fans and pundits just waiting for a single mistake (any mistake), to verify their "superior understanding of football than you". We get it. We all want our team to win. But assigning 100% of the blame on a single player is insanity. Even assigning 75% of the blame on a single player is insanity. BTW, the Hall of Fame is filled to the brim with players who made mistakes (plenty of them)...and half of them got there because of the situation they fell into, on a team already built to win. Need an example: Toney has two superbowl rings in only 3 years in the NFL 

Regardless, such is the life of a fan base. As for me, I have always said that I just want a competitive team that is fun to watch. When the team is not competitive at all, it's no fun. Personally, I believe the combo of Schoen/Daboll is a godsend. I believe we are turning the corner and headed in the right direction. I wish it could be faster, but it is what it is

BTW, great podcast/video. Thanks for sharing Bob

[DaveBrown74]

When you consider NFL team executives and coaches have Jones ranked 23 out of 30, having the Giant's QB situation the 3rd worst seems like an exercise in bias.

Rich,

I assume the term "QB situation" refers to the whole QB room, not just the starter. I believe these rankings are taking into account that we downgraded at the QB2 position this year.

Many teams have non-starting QBs on the roster who are either better, or at least more promising, than Lock/Devito. Whatever anyone thinks of Jones, the fact remains that our starting QB has remained healthy all season only once in his five year career. Plus he's coming off a major injury. So I think it's reasonable to weigh very heavily our entire QB room when one is talking about teams' "QB situations."

[bcbud]

DJ doesn"t really do anything well except run but does quit a few things badly. Sadly He is a dead end

[coggs]

People are under the impression that a better QB would have made the OL, WR, defense, better.  IMO, Swap Pat Mahomes with Daniel Jones and the Giants may have won 2 more games per year.  Better, yes, but nothing significant.  Do the Chiefs still win the Super Bowls?  Not all 3, but might have won 1.

[y_so_blu]

Every year we try to build around him, and every year (excluding the unicorn run in '22) it fails. So yeah, people do tend to draw conclusions based on actual results rather than excuses. They're funny that way.

Insisting that "Daniel Jones might still be the answer, you don't knooooooow" is just Stockholm Syndrome at this point. Grade-A teammate and human being, though.

[Bob In PA]

There's a few things worth noting here.

• The original list only has 30 QBs on it and doesn't include any of the rookies. Of the 6 teams that took QBs in the first round, only three had QBs on that list. Despite Sam Darnold and Jacoby Brissett being at the bottom of that list, I doubt those same executives would take the Giants' situation over the Vikings or Patriots.
• Guys like Anthony Richardson, Will Levis and Bryce Young were listed slightly below Jones. However, like the rookies, those guys are on their initial deals and provide much better opportunity for their teams to build around them.
• One of the two teams above us has two QBs on Sando's list and one is listed at 22 to Jones' 23

Ultimately, you shouldn't expect consistent answers when looking at two lists that are built off of different questions

jg: Very interesting points. Nice post.

I think there definitely is a "bang-for-the-buck" element that must be considered in the salary cap era when determining which QB's are best and worst.

Rookie QB's are an extreme wild-card in pro football. Most of them get abused by sneaky or clever defensive coordinators who set them up early in games for disaster at key moments in the 2nd half, so you can never be "too cautious" when evaluating them.

Bob

[Doc16LT56]

Every year we try to build around him, and every year (excluding the unicorn run in '22) it fails. So yeah, people do tend to draw conclusions based on actual results rather than excuses. They're funny that way.

Insisting that "Daniel Jones might still be the answer, you don't knooooooow" is just Stockholm Syndrome at this point. Grade-A teammate and human being, though.

This is why we're a bottom-5 organization for more than a decade. It's the excuse making and low expectations.

[katkavage]

This is why we're a bottom-5 organization for more than a decade. It's the excuse making and low expectations.

The excuse making for the Giants is world class. See what people outside the organization think who have no skin in the Giants game. Those within, and especially the lifers, can't see the problems clearly.

[DaveBrown74]

100% about the excuse-making and the overrating of our own players and generally lower bar. Because we have been so bad now for so long, for many fans a season like 2022 is a big success, both for the team and for Jones. If we repeat that type of year in 2024, the calls to keep Jones and build around him long term will be loud.

[MightyGiants]

I am a big fan of good process.   I will confess that whenever I hear a fan talk about "excuses" when it comes to evaluating a QB (usually Daniel Jones), I can't help but feel that the speaker doesn't use the good process to evaluate a quarterback.  I think it is or is close to a fact that a QB's performance is significantly impacted by the three pillars of support-  coaching/scheme, protection, and receivers.

To dismiss consideration of a QBs support by calling it "excuses" shows me a badly flawed evaluation process.


That said, ultimately, Jones could prove not to be a franchise-caliber quarterback due to injury or lack of ability (or both). However, those who got there via the "making excuses" approach reached that conclusion by dumb luck rather than proper evaluation, at least in my opinion.