The positions a team needs for success

[babywhales]

I also criticized DJ, but apparently, I didn't blame him hard enough or blame everything on him.

I criticized Daboll, the team, Thibs and burns.  I also specifically brought up the 99 yard drive. 

All that is a side story to the 47 mill Coach Killer QB who has thrown more pick 6's than TD's under his extension and is doing a great job at getting his 3rd coach fired adn is on his 4th OC. A coach who like the three before him can not make this one read QB functional. 

[T200]

Chris,

I held out slim hope that the Giants could at least make it competitive in the second half.  When it appeared, the Giants opened the second half with a rare (I think it was their first) 3-and-out defensive stop, only to have it negated by a facemask penalty on KT; that's when I knew the team's goose was fully cooked.

The defense gave up three scores - 21 points

The offense gave the opposition another TD.

The offense had two FGs and one interception in the EZ. All things being equal, this is a tie game at 21 at some point.

The game was over because the offense couldn't put the ball in the end zone.

[MightyGiants]

The defense gave up three scores - 21 points

The offense gave the opposition another TD.

The offense had two FGs and one interception in the EZ. All things being equal, this is a tie game at 21 at some point.

The game was over because the offense couldn't put the ball in the end zone.

Tim,

The Vikings went conservative in the second half, or the score would have been much higher than it was.  The team made Sam frickin Darnold look like the second coming of Joe Montana.  If you think the defense is good enough, I fear you are in for a rude awakening.

[MightyGiants]

I criticized Daboll, the team, Thibs and burns.  I also specifically brought up the 99 yard drive.

All that is a side story to the 47 mill Coach Killer QB who has thrown more pick 6's than TD's under his extension and is doing a great job at getting his 3rd coach fired adn is on his 4th OC. A coach who like the three before him can not make this one read QB functional.

Chris,

As I already explained, it's an error to claim Jones as a $47 million dollar player.  I didn't hear you saying he was only a $15 million dollar player last season.  The reality is Jones is a mid teir (tied for 15th and 16th veteran QB. Although, frankly, the way DJ played yesterday, he isn't worth middle-of-the-pack veteran money.

[T200]

Tim,

The Vikings went conservative in the second half, or the score would have been much higher than it was.  The team made Sam frickin Darnold look like the second coming of Joe Montana.  If you think the defense is good enough, I fear you are in for a rude awakening.

The Vikings went conservative because there was no threat of the Giants offense scoring.

You're judging a new defensive coach and his scheme off of one game. This is DJ's 6th season. I think there is more of a sample size there (60+ games) than one game of Bowen's tenure.

You've been a huge proponent of not being able to accurately evaluate Jones without your three pillars of support yet you're down on a new defense after one game? Where's balance and fairness?

[MightyGiants]

The Vikings went conservative because there was no threat of the Giants offense scoring.

You're judging a new defensive coach and his scheme off of one game. This is DJ's 6th season. I think there is more of a sample size there (60+ games) than one game of Bowen's tenure.

You've been a huge proponent of not being able to accurately evaluate Jones without your three pillars of support yet you're down on a new defense after one game? Where's balance and fairness?

Tim,

So it's wrong of me to judge the defense off of one game, but it's correct to judge DJ off of arguably the worst game of his career?  That doesn't sound particularly consistent.

As I said at the very beginning in my disclaimer, this is all off of one game.  It's possible that both DJ and the defense improve.  It's also possible (and perhaps likely) that was we saw yesterday is an indication of things to come.

[Bob In PA]

I also criticized DJ, but apparently, I didn't blame him hard enough or blame everything on him.

Rich: You're not alone in that regard. lol

[T200]

Tim,

So it's wrong of me to judge the defense off of one game, but it's correct to judge DJ off of arguably the worst game of his career?  That doesn't sound particularly consistent.

As I said at the very beginning in my disclaimer, this is all off of one game.  It's possible that both DJ and the defense improve.  It's also possible (and perhaps likely) that was we saw yesterday is an indication of things to come.

Rich,

You're better than that. First, you can't have it both ways. You can't judge the defense off of one game and INCORRECTLY say I can't do the same for DJ.

Second, no one judged DJ off of one game. I even said it in my post:

You're judging a new defensive coach and his scheme off of one game. This is DJ's 6th season. I think there is more of a sample size there (60+ games) than one game of Bowen's tenure.

DJ is who many of us thought he was. The chances of him getting better are slim to none. And I just saw Slim packing his bags.

[Trench]

Did Daboll coach Jones into throwing passes 4 yards short or behind his receivers. Did he tell him to hit the DT in the numbers if at all possible? A merely semi-competent player at QB would make sooooo much of this stuff irrelevant. If you want to crush Daboll crush him for not walking into schoens office and threatening to quit if he tried to sign Jones long term.

Let few ask this: if Jones wasn't ready to go from his ACL so Devito started that game and the exact same thing happens do we say Daboll is the reason or do we say Devito stinks of course he's going to look like that? Because right now those guys are basically the same only one of them is making 40 million dollars for no reason.

I'll take a stab at this.

- Daboll didn't have a backup punt returner ready
- Daboll had Flott playing a spot he never practiced in all summer
- Daboll didn't go for it on 4th down at the 47 yard line only down 14-3
- Daboll didn't have them try Simmons
- Daboll watched as Phillips played 7 snaps
- Daboll didn't give much of a chance to Hyatt
- Daboll only called one or two plays to his rookie TE
- Daboll didn't have us in a hurry up offense nor did he attempt to change momentum
- Daboll decided not to play starters for most of preseason
- Daboll stood at podium post game and it appears to me he is already close to losing his locker room after week one.

I've supported Daboll but he is a far cry from the gunslinger I saw in his first game as head coach

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

You're better than that. First, you can't have it both ways. You can't judge the defense off of one game and INCORRECTLY say I can't do the same for DJ.

Second, no one judged DJ off of one game. I even said it in my post:
DJ is who many of us thought he was. The chances of him getting better are slim to none. And I just saw Slim packing his bags.

Tim,

For the sake of brevity, I left some points out of my post.  You are talking like DJ has 6 seasons of bad games.  That, in my opinion, is not reflective of reality.  DJ has had a mixed bag of a career with both good and bad games.  So, to suggest that you are judging DJ on a 6-year career of bad games doesn't seem all that accurate. 

Also, you were the one who suggested that I couldn't judge the defense on one game but that we should judge DJ on this bad game.  I made it clear I was judging all off of one game and clearly stated that doing so came with risk.  So, no one could claim that I wasn't being consistent with all aspects I was evaluating.

[babywhales]

Chris,

As I already explained, it's an error to claim Jones as a $47 million dollar player.  I didn't hear you saying he was only a $15 million dollar player last season.  The reality is Jones is a mid teir (tied for 15th and 16th veteran QB. Although, frankly, the way DJ played yesterday, he isn't worth middle-of-the-pack veteran money.

47 with transfer or 40 mill

call it what you will.

He isn't worth Lucks contract other than it being a 1 year deal.

[MightyGiants]

I'll take a stab at this.

- Daboll didn't have a backup punt returner ready
- Daboll had Flott playing a spot he never practiced in all summer
- Daboll didn't go for it on 4th down at the 47 yard line only down 14-3
- Daboll didn't have them try Simmons
- Daboll watched as Phillips played 7 snaps
- Daboll didn't give much of a chance to Hyatt
- Daboll only called one or two plays to his rookie TE
- Daboll didn't have us in a hurry up offense nor did he attempt to change momentum
- Daboll decided not to play starters for most of preseason
- Daboll stood at podium post game and it appears to me he is already close to losing his locker room after week one.

I've supported Daboll but he is a far cry from the gunslinger I saw in his first game as head coach

Trench,

Daboll not going for it on 4th down when the team desperately needed a spark, bothered me as well.

[Trench]

Rich,

You're better than that. First, you can't have it both ways. You can't judge the defense off of one game and INCORRECTLY say I can't do the same for DJ.

Second, no one judged DJ off of one game. I even said it in my post:
DJ is who many of us thought he was. The chances of him getting better are slim to none. And I just saw Slim packing his bags.

It is definitely fair to say many knew exactly what Jones was a couple seasons ago. It's why we have had such spirited debate on this forum

[Trench]

Rich the question to me is, when do we try a new QB. I think it's fair to say this isn't panicking after one game stuff. In fact if Daboll went with Devito and we started winning wouldn't that make him look good as a head coach for seeing it early?

[MightyGiants]

Rich the question to me is, when do we try a new QB. I think it's fair to say this isn't panicking after one game stuff. In fact if Daboll went with Devito and we started winning wouldn't that make him look good as a head coach for seeing it early?

When it comes to benching DJ with the idea of another QB doing better, I am mindful that DJ far and away looked like the best QB on the Giants roster throughout the preseason.    Locked looked as uncomfortable as DJ throughout the offseason, and Devito didn't look good at all.  I have some concerns that while the QB talent isn't overwhelming, I am wondering if Daboll, the play caller and head coach, has created a QB-friendly system in his quest to increase the rate of big plays (which sadly didn't materialize yesterday).