Lombardi: Giants' Joe Schoen 'insulting to my profession'

[MightyGiants]

During the latest episode of The GM Shuffle podcast with Lombardi, the former executive looked back on "Hard Knocks: Offseason with the New York Giants" and took personal offense to what he saw.

"When you watch that, there were no models, there was no, 'How are we building this team?' It was really amateur hour," Lombardi said. "What it did, it was insulting to my profession. It made people (who) hang out at sports bars think they can be a GM. So, to me, it was really embarrassing."

Lombardi went on to suggest that fans have quit on Schoen, no longer have any confidence in him as general manager, and they are aware his product is no good.

Perhaps some of that is projection, but there may also be a level of truth to it.

"I feel bad for the Giants fans. I really do because I don't see how it gets better," Lombardi said. "How are they getting to five wins?"

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/09/10/michael-lombardi-new-york-giants-joe-schoen-insulting-to-my-profession/?taid=66e01fad5df5c500010ae906&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

[T200]

Wow. So he gleaned everything he needs to know about Schoen and how the Giants are run from a TV show? I guess he thinks they all stink to high heaven because he didn't see any of them shower?

What an idiot. Remind me again what team he works for? "My profession" - you're an EX-GM! We need a middle finger emoji. In the meantime, Lombardi, this is for you

[JT39]

If anyone knows what its like to be a disaster at his position of GM - it would be one Mike Lombardi.

[MightyGiants]

It's funny, fans are eager to pile on Daniel Jones, but after 3 seasons the Giants have a roster that is ranked (and plays like) one of the worst in the league.  Yet, fans are more eager to bash any critics than they are to hold our GM (who objectively has not done anything to improve the roster he inherited in the last three years) accountable.

People may hate Mike Lombardi, but I have a hard time saying he is wrong about Joe Schoen.  The results, as they say, speak for themselves

[Giant Obsession]

In addition to the amateur hour show Hard Knocks showed us to be I was appalled by Joe Shoen's language and f bombs.  Joe, you ain't no OT in the trenches for 70 plays, you are an executive of the New York Football Gants.....being filmed....and you KNOW you are being filmed.

How about showing a little discipline at the very least during the filming.  I ain't no prude, but it was embarrassing.  Is that how you talked to the Executive committee in your interview for the position you hold.  Is that how you talk to your children ??  I guess I am just getting too old for this world because pride does not seem to matter in how you conduct yourself.

Okay, end of my f'in rant.

[Philosophers]

Wow. So he gleaned everything he needs to know about Schoen and how the Giants are run from a TV show? I guess he thinks they all stink to high heaven because he didn't see any of them shower?

What an idiot. Remind me again what team he works for? "My profession" - you're an EX-GM! We need a middle finger emoji. In the meantime, Lombardi, this is for you

Where did he say he got all his info from watching the show?

[babywhales]

It's funny, fans are eager to pile on Daniel Jones, but after 3 seasons the Giants have a roster that is ranked (and plays like) one of the worst in the league.  Yet, fans are more eager to bash any critics than they are to hold our GM (who objectively has not done anything to improve the roster he inherited in the last three years) accountable.

People may hate Mike Lombardi, but I have a hard time saying he is wrong about Joe Schoen.  The results, as they say, speak for themselves

Repetitive selective criticism is certainly interesting  

[MightyGiants]

Where did he say he got all his info from watching the show?

Lombardi is friends with both Daboll and Wink, no doubt he knows more of what goes on at 1925 Giants Way than most people.

[EDjohnst1981]

This is interesting, JS is entering his 3rd season - by which point you should be able to examine the impact of his first draft.

By many accounts, he has done well in managing a cap disaster that he inherited (so that's a plus), he has signed Jones to a long term contract (negative) but added in an escape clause that allows him get out after this year (positive). He didn't re-sign an oft-injured and aging RB (that's a plus, right?).

The jury is out of Thibs, Neal looks like a bust (negative) and by all accounts Nabors is a hit - although it remains to be seen if that's the case, and any success or lack of will be linked to the quarterback. And finally, he hired a coach who was COTY in his first season.

I'm genuinely not sure why he is ragged on so much by Lombardi and fans alike. Being a GM of a dumpster fire organisation will take time to mend.

[MightyGiants]

This is interesting, JS is entering his 3rd season - by which point you should be able to examine the impact of his first draft.

By many accounts, he has done well in managing a cap disaster that he inherited (so that's a plus), he has signed Jones to a long term contract (negative) but added in an escape clause that allows him get out after this year (positive). He didn't re-sign an oft-injured and aging RB (that's a plus, right?).

The jury is out of Thibs, Neal looks like a bust (negative) and by all accounts Nabors is a hit - although it remains to be seen if that's the case, and any success or lack of will be linked to the quarterback.

I'm genuinely not sure why he is ragged on so much by Lombardi and fans alike. Being a GM of a dumpster fire organisation will take time to mend.

Schoen resolved the salary cap issue in year one, by signing not signing any big-ticket players and helping the Eagles by letting Bradberry walk after the free agency feeding frenzy.

Let us look at that first draft:

1   Kayvon Thibodeaux   5  Put up zeros in the box score of the stinker of an opener
1   Evan Neal   7   Big time bust
2   Wan'Dale Robinson   43  A contributor but not fully living up to 43th pick
3   Joshua Ezeudu   67   OL   bust
3   Cordale Flott   81   CB   disappointment boarding on bust
4   Daniel Bellinger   112   okay nothing special
4   Dane Belton   114   okay nothing special
5   Micah McFadden   146   okay nothing special
5   D.J. Davidson   147   okay nothing special
5   Marcus McKethan   173   off the roster
6   Darrian Beavers   182   off the roster


On top of that, Schoen didn't trade away Barkley or McKinney despite not retaining either.  That meant passing up draft capital and winning games that pushed NYG out of QB drafting position

Again, the roster is as bad, if not worse, than the one he inherited.

It's been three years of off-season roster moves.  Why are they no better???  How many more years before we see a roster that actually is improved?

[T200]

Where did he say he got all his info from watching the show?

During the latest episode of The GM Shuffle podcast with Lombardi, the former executive looked back on "Hard Knocks: Offseason with the New York Giants" and took personal offense to what he saw.

"When you watch that, there were no models..."

He was referring to Hard Knocks. He's criticizing Schoen based on what he saw on the show.

[babywhales]

Lombardi is a mixed bag IMO

First and foremost the guy is a talking head, he is paid to create content. As frustrating as it may be the Giants have made it very easy for him to bash them for the past decade plus.

To his credit he hired Gruden then replaced him with Callahan and made a Super Bowl Appearance.
His first draft pick ever was HOF Charles Woodson and it was all down hill from there, in 9 years of draft picks he picked Woodson a HOF, Asougmuha a pro bowler and very little else.

He never successfully drafted a QB but did bring in Gannon who was mediocre at best in KC before, so that moved worked and credit must be given.

He failed more than he succeeded and that is understatement.

The biggest problem I think most giants fans have with him is that the team is an easy target for him to run his mouth about.  He might not be correct at times but he reminds everyone of the complete disaster of a mess that is and has been the Giants for the past decade plus.

Schoen was spot on though, Barkley can succeed without Jones, but it remains to be seen if Jones can succeed without Barkley and in order to find a future QB the Giants must have a QB who isn't trying to use Barkley as a crutch constantly and scrambling from the benefit of a two headed running threat.  In year 6 the training wheels are off.  With the out year in the contract Jones must show to be a functional NFL QB :  make correct presnap reads, and identify the correct Receivers against various defenses, hit the throws. 
In short add value to the offense by virtue of your passing play.

[MightyGiants]

He was referring to Hard Knocks. He's criticizing Schoen based on what he saw on the show.

In previous commentaries, Mike Lombardi went into more detail.  Despite all the footage talking about free agency and the draft, one thing you never heard Schoen or anyone else mention was the team's division rivals.  Mike Lombardi learned from some of the best minds in football.  They taught him that the first thing a team needs to do is figure out how to defeat their division rivals.  While it's clear that Hard Knocks didn't capture all their discussions, there was enough discussion about how the Giants stack up against the Cowboys and Eagles (less so the Commanders), which would have been mentioned at least once.

An example that was given was the acquisition of Brian Burns.  Mike talked about how if he was still with Al Davis (in his prime), the first thing the team would do when considering acquiring him was to get all the tape of how he faired against the division rivals.  Yet, neither in hard knocks nor any presser that were never any mention about how Burns did against the Commanders, Eagles or Cowboys. 

Another thing Mike mocked was Daboll pulling up stats on his phone.  They have a whole analytics department and he was pulling up stats on this phone? 

[T200]

Lombardi went on to suggest that fans have quit on Schoen, no longer have any confidence in him as general manager, and they are aware his product is no good.

Funny how he says the product belongs to Schoen and not Mara. Call out the ownership for his choices at GM and HC over the past 8 years. He won't do that though. Call out the 6 years of unwavering support for a bottom-of-the-barrel QB. Call out the nepotism of putting family in a business they know nothing about.

[MightyGiants]

Lombardi is a mixed bag IMO

First and foremost the guy is a talking head, he is paid to create content. As frustrating as it may be the Giants have made it very easy for him to bash them for the past decade plus.

To his credit he hired Gruden then replaced him with Callahan and made a Super Bowl Appearance.
His first draft pick ever was HOF Charles Woodson and it was all down hill from there, in 9 years of draft picks he picked Woodson a HOF, Asougmuha a pro bowler and very little else.

He never successfully drafted a QB but did bring in Gannon who was mediocre at best in KC before, so that moved worked and credit must be given.

He failed more than he succeeded and that is understatement.

The biggest problem I think most giants fans have with him is that the team is an easy target for him to run his mouth about.  He might not be correct at times but he reminds everyone of the complete disaster of a mess that is and has been the Giants for the past decade plus.

Schoen was spot on though, Barkley can succeed without Jones, but it remains to be seen if Jones can succeed without Barkley and in order to find a future QB the Giants must have a QB who isn't trying to use Barkley as a crutch constantly and scrambling from the benefit of a two headed running threat.  In year 6 the training wheels are off.  With the out year in the contract Jones must show to be a functional NFL QB :  make correct presnap reads, and identify the correct Receivers against various defenses, hit the throws. 
In short add value to the offense by virtue of your passing play.

In my opinion, Mike is a better teacher of the NFL and the GM position than he was a GM.  I am always mindful (and Mike frequently quotes these men) that Mike learned football from Bill Walsh, Al Davis, and Bill Belichick.  I can't imagine a better trio to learn football from.