Carl Banks and Nick Falato on the Giants defense

[MightyGiants]

Carl Banks @CarlBanksGIII
·
2h
I'm seeing a lot of posts, shitting on Shane Bowens zone scheme from Sunday..

Pro Tip: When you're playing against a 1 Read &Run QB, you don't want defenders with their backs to him
 + his pass attempts are 10yds or less. He absolutely had the correct scheme for WASH


Nick Falato @nickfalato
·
5m
Replying to
@CarlBanksGIII

Much respect, and far be it for me to review you on defensive football...

I get the pro tip in theory, but that was not Tampa's approach in Week 1. They held WAS to 145 yards and a touchdown until late in the 3rd Q, and they forced punts.

Bowles ran a lot of zone but was in a press alignment on over 40% of the snaps, and the #Giants were in off-coverage on over 40% of their snaps.

I understand that it may not be in Bowen's DNA to press up on the line, and this is a new defense with young players—that has to be factored in.

However, does playing against a 1 Read & Run QB always warrant the CBs at 8+ yards depth? Especially after multiple WAS receivers/RBs caught the ball with 8+ yards of space to work with, sometimes with multiple blockers in front? There's no contingency to prevent that against a young rookie QB and an OC known for a more horizontal-based attack?

Washington had 145 YAC, fourth most on the week, with an aDot of just 5 yards, second-least on the week.

A lot goes into that; it's not just scheme. Missed tackles, the threat of the run with the RPO holding LBs, blown assignments, etc.

Even with those factors, criticizing the scheme after that game seems entirely reasonable.

[Uncle Mickey]

Carl Banks @CarlBanksGIII
·
2h
I'm seeing a lot of posts, shitting on Shane Bowens zone scheme from Sunday..

Pro Tip: When you're playing against a 1 Read &Run QB, you don't want defenders with their backs to him
 + his pass attempts are 10yds or less. He absolutely had the correct scheme for WASH


Nick Falato @nickfalato
·
5m
Replying to
@CarlBanksGIII

Much respect, and far be it for me to review you on defensive football...

I get the pro tip in theory, but that was not Tampa's approach in Week 1. They held WAS to 145 yards and a touchdown until late in the 3rd Q, and they forced punts.

Bowles ran a lot of zone but was in a press alignment on over 40% of the snaps, and the #Giants were in off-coverage on over 40% of their snaps.

I understand that it may not be in Bowen's DNA to press up on the line, and this is a new defense with young players—that has to be factored in.

However, does playing against a 1 Read & Run QB always warrant the CBs at 8+ yards depth? Especially after multiple WAS receivers/RBs caught the ball with 8+ yards of space to work with, sometimes with multiple blockers in front? There's no contingency to prevent that against a young rookie QB and an OC known for a more horizontal-based attack?

Washington had 145 YAC, fourth most on the week, with an aDot of just 5 yards, second-least on the week.

A lot goes into that; it's not just scheme. Missed tackles, the threat of the run with the RPO holding LBs, blown assignments, etc.

Even with those factors, criticizing the scheme after that game seems entirely reasonable.

Falato just took company man Banks to town with that response

[Jclayton92]

Falato is my favorite Giants insider to covet, always about the Xs and Os.

[Ed Vette]

As Nick pointed out, the space given by the Corners was unnecessary. They can play Man and not be so deep. It also created a situation where the Edge Rushers had to set up wide at least 7 Technique on both sides and when your Nose Tackle is lined up 0 or Nose Shade it creates massive sized Gaps. There were times the LBs covered the correct Gap but then had to come around from behind to follow the RB in a well blocked A Gap. A 5 Yard cushion between the DLine and Backers and at least 7 yards between the Cover 2 Safeties and the LBs. Too much space and when their TE and RB Chip or stay in, it makes it difficult to get pressure with four Men. The way to shore this up is to spread both DTs on some of these snaps and bring the Edges in slightly for more balance and close those gaps, and bring the Corners up on man. Maybe when Bowen has more confidence in his DBs to cover, he can modify his game plan. I get Carl's point about Press Coverage, but I'd rather deal with a running QB than the RBs chewing up yards after contact. The quick game on short passes and almost 8 yards per carry killed the Defense in time of possession. I was actually impressed they weren't gassed by the 4th quarter. Watching the all 22, it underscores what we saw game day. It took the ball out of DJs hands for at least one and likely two sets of downs. Singletary had a good game and also had some nice yards after contact at the second level. I know we will see more of the same in Cleveland but I hope there are some adjustments. This is where Kafka has to spend some time while Daboll has to spend more time with the Offense. That back seven seem to have a lot of choices to make on the fly.

[MightyGiants]

I could put it in simple terms.  You had a rookie QB who was unlikely (at least based on the game tape of week one and what was seen in week 2) to push the ball down the field.  Instead of taking advantage of that fact by crowding the line of scrimmage, the defense played off, allowing the Commanders offense to function rather well.

Bowen's failure to make adjustments was rather disturbing to me.

[Philosophers]

Over the course of my life, I have spotted extraordinary coordinators and position coaches.  They just stand out above the others.  I dont think the Giants have anyone like that now. 

[coggs]

I get what Banks is saying, but it doesnt work if your D can't force a few punts during the game.  They cant score every drive.

[Bob In PA]

As Nick pointed out, the space given by the Corners was unnecessary. They can play Man and not be so deep. It also created a situation where the Edge Rushers had to set up wide at least 7 Technique on both sides and when your Nose Tackle is lined up 0 or Nose Shade it creates massive sized Gaps. There were times the LBs covered the correct Gap but then had to come around from behind to follow the RB in a well blocked A Gap. A 5 Yard cushion between the DLine and Backers and at least 7 yards between the Cover 2 Safeties and the LBs. Too much space and when their TE and RB Chip or stay in, it makes it difficult to get pressure with four Men. The way to shore this up is to spread both DTs on some of these snaps and bring the Edges in slightly for more balance and close those gaps, and bring the Corners up on man. Maybe when Bowen has more confidence in his DBs to cover, he can modify his game plan. I get Carl's point about Press Coverage, but I'd rather deal with a running QB than the RBs chewing up yards after contact. The quick game on short passes and almost 8 yards per carry killed the Defense in time of possession. I was actually impressed they weren't gassed by the 4th quarter. Watching the all 22, it underscores what we saw game day. It took the ball out of DJs hands for at least one and likely two sets of downs. Singletary had a good game and also had some nice yards after contact at the second level. I know we will see more of the same in Cleveland but I hope there are some adjustments. This is where Kafka has to spend some time while Daboll has to spend more time with the Offense. That back seven seem to have a lot of choices to make on the fly.

Ed: Your point balances very well Banks' post versus Falato's response. I think they're both correct. Bob

[Uncle Mickey]

I get what Banks is saying, but it doesnt work if your D can force a few punts during the game.  They cant score every drive.

There needs to be some variation. The D played not to lose or give up the big play to the point that it basically begged Klingsbury to kill us underneath and with the run and short /medium stuff.

Dru Phillips is an in your face CB. Banks and Adoree both can play man. Take advantage of your players strengths.

[Bob In PA]

There needs to be some variation. The D played not to lose or give up the big play to the point that it basically begged Klingsbury to kill us underneath and with the run and short /medium stuff.

Dru Phillips is an in your face CB. Banks and Adoree both can play man. Take advantage of your players strengths.

Mickey: I may be repeating myself but I think a lot of the caution was due to the players at key positions being very young, along with the fact that the defense was "new" to all of them, veterans included. Bob

[Uncle Mickey]

Mickey: I may be repeating myself but I think a lot of the caution was due to the players at key positions being very young, along with the fact that the defense was "new" to all of them, veterans included. Bob

That might be part of it sure. But it was still too darn conservative even taking that into account.   

[andrew_nyGiants]

I get what Banks is saying, but it doesnt work if your D can force a few punts during the game.  They cant score every drive.

It also doesn't work if you're making business decisions in week 2 instead of hitting and wrapping up.


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[MrGap92]

I wonder what this forum would be saying if it was 2007 and we were 0-2 with Spags defense

[TDToomer]

I wonder what this forum would be saying if it was 2007 and we were 0-2 with Spags defense

This forum existed. There were a lot of strong words and calls for heads to roll. One thing I seem to remember were discussion about whether Eli should have been extended to what was a pretty large contract at the time prior to the season and how much it would cost to get out of it.

[Bob In PA]

This forum existed. There were a lot of strong words and calls for heads to roll. One thing I seem to remember were discussion about whether Eli should have been extended to what was a pretty large contract at the time prior to the season and how much it would cost to get out of it.

TD: That's the advantage of promoting free exchange of ideas here.

We get to hear everything, and each of us then gets to decide where the "truth" might fall. 

Eventually, those who correctly anticipate future developments or occurrences are proven correct, so that adds a good dose of "humility" to the experience. Sometimes, those who "yell" the loudest get put in their place, but (significantly) other times they hit the nail on the head.

Bob