More Good than Bad

[Gmo11]

Starting with the worst: Nabers concussion.  I wouldn't be surprised if he actually first got it before even the final play.  That last drive he looked sluggish and was slow to get up repeatedly I was concerned and then when he went down for good it was clear as day that's a concussion and probably a bad one.  Not that there's any sort of good one.  I get that Nabers makes the offense look serviceable and makes Jones look almost respectable but they're gonna kill this poor kid if they keep using him like this.

Now that was obviously bad.  The red zone offense was also bad.  And the running game was very bad.  Dallas was playing as though they were embarrassed the first few weeks of the season and were not going to let the Giants run the ball ever.  Daring Jones to beat them.  It was the right strategy and to be fair worked. Although it almost didn't.  And the drops...my God the drops.  Slayton with 2, Wandale with 1.  Any one of which could have changed the outcome of the game.

But as for the good?  Thomas shut down Parsons.  Nice bounce back from him after Myles Garrett won the day on Sunday. 

Jones looked pretty good.  It was one of the better games he's played.  not exactly a high bar to clear but he cleared it.  I actually saw him make progressions from one receiver to another.  Still can't throw a ball further than 30 air yards but that might just be who he is now.

Defense stepped up after a rough start.  Lamb went nuts on the first drive and was held mostly in check following that.  And that was missing 2 of their top 3 corners.  Thibs was living in the backfield. 

Nabers and Wandale were open all day.  Granted the Cowboys where short handed in the secondary too but they still needed to take advantage of that and they did.

The Cowboys have manhandled the Giants in recent seasons as though it was too easy.  The Giants didn't belong on the same field as them.  But that wasn't the case this week.  They went toe to toe and damn near pulled it out.  I personally didn't think it would be this close and was pleasantly surprised.  I think it shows what the team can look like when the QB doesn't just blow it himself.  Imagine what would happen with a QB that could throw a deep ball!

[B1GBLUE]

Starting with the worst: Nabers concussion.  I wouldn't be surprised if he actually first got it before even the final play.  That last drive he looked sluggish and was slow to get up repeatedly I was concerned and then when he went down for good it was clear as day that's a concussion and probably a bad one.  Not that there's any sort of good one.  I get that Nabers makes the offense look serviceable and makes Jones look almost respectable but they're gonna kill this poor kid if they keep using him like this.

Now that was obviously bad.  The red zone offense was also bad.  And the running game was very bad.  Dallas was playing as though they were embarrassed the first few weeks of the season and were not going to let the Giants run the ball ever.  Daring Jones to beat them.  It was the right strategy and to be fair worked. Although it almost didn't.  And the drops...my God the drops.  Slayton with 2, Wandale with 1.  Any one of which could have changed the outcome of the game.

But as for the good?  Thomas shut down Parsons.  Nice bounce back from him after Myles Garrett won the day on Sunday. 

Jones looked pretty good.  It was one of the better games he's played.  not exactly a high bar to clear but he cleared it.  I actually saw him make progressions from one receiver to another.  Still can't throw a ball further than 30 air yards but that might just be who he is now.

Defense stepped up after a rough start.  Lamb went nuts on the first drive and was held mostly in check following that.  And that was missing 2 of their top 3 corners.  Thibs was living in the backfield. 

Nabers and Wandale were open all day.  Granted the Cowboys where short handed in the secondary too but they still needed to take advantage of that and they did.

The Cowboys have manhandled the Giants in recent seasons as though it was too easy.  The Giants didn't belong on the same field as them.  But that wasn't the case this week.  They went toe to toe and damn near pulled it out.  I personally didn't think it would be this close and was pleasantly surprised.  I think it shows what the team can look like when the QB doesn't just blow it himself.  Imagine what would happen with a QB that could throw a deep ball!

You'll probably get killed for this post but i agree for the most part. the way the cowboys have dominated us over recent years, it felt closer than it has in a long time. i saw what almost appeared to be a competent offense. we couldnt score, but we didnt go 3 and out with pressure in jones face every snap. i know its hard to fathom, but we ARE trending in the right direction. it's going to take a little time. the play calling needs to be better. the defense needs to shore up.

[files58]

"Jones looked pretty good.  It was one of the better games he's played.  not exactly a high bar to clear but he cleared it.  I actually saw him make progressions from one receiver to another.  Still can't throw a ball further than 30 air yards but that might just be who he is now."

Boy our collective bar is really low, like a limbo bar no one can get under. The nearest Jones will get to clutch, is if he drives a stick. HE CANNOT MAKE PLAYS THAT WINNING QB'S MAKE IN A PASSING LEAGUE. His ceiling is maybe 500, and that's a big maybe. Mara has the luxury to sit behind a team that in the past ten years has more than tripled in value from $2.1 Billion to just over $7 Billion. Is there another business that thrives when putting out a vastly inferior product? Where is the incentive? So in the owners' suite this team is very successful, in the stands they are garbage. Our measure of success is WINS. Nothing else. Fundamental difference. 

[killarich]

"Jones looked pretty good.  It was one of the better games he's played.  not exactly a high bar to clear but he cleared it.  I actually saw him make progressions from one receiver to another.  Still can't throw a ball further than 30 air yards but that might just be who he is now."

Boy our collective bar is really low, like a limbo bar no one can get under. The nearest Jones will get to clutch, is if he drives a stick. HE CANNOT MAKE PLAYS THAT WINNING QB'S MAKE IN A PASSING LEAGUE. His ceiling is maybe 500, and that's a big maybe. Mara has the luxury to sit behind a team that in the past ten years has more than tripled in value from $2.1 Billion to just over $7 Billion. Is there another business that thrives when putting out a vastly inferior product? Where is the incentive? So in the owners' suite this team is very successful, in the stands they are garbage. Our measure of success is WINS. Nothing else. Fundamental difference. 

He was 23-25 at one point.... I hopped off the DJ train after week 1... but he is not close to the reason we lost this game

Dropped passes and 2 bogus phantom penalties or pick up flag was the reason we lost this game

[B1GBLUE]

"Jones looked pretty good.  It was one of the better games he's played.  not exactly a high bar to clear but he cleared it.  I actually saw him make progressions from one receiver to another.  Still can't throw a ball further than 30 air yards but that might just be who he is now."

Boy our collective bar is really low, like a limbo bar no one can get under. The nearest Jones will get to clutch, is if he drives a stick. HE CANNOT MAKE PLAYS THAT WINNING QB'S MAKE IN A PASSING LEAGUE. His ceiling is maybe 500, and that's a big maybe. Mara has the luxury to sit behind a team that in the past ten years has more than tripled in value from $2.1 Billion to just over $7 Billion. Is there another business that thrives when putting out a vastly inferior product? Where is the incentive? So in the owners' suite this team is very successful, in the stands they are garbage. Our measure of success is WINS. Nothing else. Fundamental difference. 

You're not wrong. And yes i know its year 6, but it was improvement. He looks like he's gaining confidence. The oline is holding up and guys are getting open. We just need to execute. It will come. Big plays are down across the entire league. Yeah he left some plays out there for sure, but that was the best our offense has looked in about 20 games to me. Especially against dallas- they usually completely outclass us. I dont feel that was the case last night.

I do fear that again- this is basically his ceiling. I believe he'll get through the end of the year to truly determine that. If he doesnt look better than this (basically a C+), i think we move on next year. If he can start hitting deep throws and scoring td's with regularity, we might be ok.

[B1GBLUE]

He was 23-25 at one point.... I hopped off the DJ train after week 1... but he is not close to the reason we lost this game

Dropped passes and 2 bogus phantom penalties or pick up flag was the reason we lost this game

agreed. its been said throughout the career. he's not the problem, but he's not the solution either. he's not the reason we lost, but he certainly didnt will us to a win either.

[ozzie]

Starting with the worst: Nabers concussion.  I wouldn't be surprised if he actually first got it before even the final play.  That last drive he looked sluggish and was slow to get up repeatedly I was concerned and then when he went down for good it was clear as day that's a concussion and probably a bad one.  Not that there's any sort of good one.  I get that Nabers makes the offense look serviceable and makes Jones look almost respectable but they're gonna kill this poor kid if they keep using him like this.

Nabers is a stud, no doubt. I get that he's the best offensive weapon the Giants have and you want to get him the ball, but I agree, if they keep this up they're going to shorten his career. I also thought he looked a bit slow towards the end of the game. He made plays but took some very hard hits. Hopefully they can start spreading the ball around a bit more, especially if the opposition is keying on Nabers, which they will be. I'm not sure he can take that kind of punishment every game and survive.

[LennG]

While Jones' numbers looks very good, he completed only 2 throws of more than 20 yards and that is a big problem. He is so inaccurate in throwing down the field, usually underthrowing, it is going to be a big problem.
Give him protection and he seems like a new QB, but while we dink and dunk the ball down the field, we are liable for mistakes. We were led to believe we are going to be aggressive and push the ball down the field, yet Jones simply cannot do this well. He is suited to a ball control offense and over time, that won't sustain.

[kingm56]

Fundamentally, I agree with you GMO; I've stated for the past few weeks that I believe we're closer to competing than some fans realize.  We have some formidable young talent, which includes two AP-type players in Dex and Thomas, and a budding super star in Nabers.  Banks has also held his own against the NFL's top 2 WRs.  The other young players in the secondary are also demonstrating they belong in the NFL.  We finally have a young nucleus starting to form on the defensive side of the ball.  I'm exceptionally optimistic about our future.

I do disagree with you concerning DJ; we continue to be hampered by his inabilities to make big plays.  I'll grant you he was really efficient last night; however, the misses to Nabers and Slayton for sure long TDs crushed this team.  If he completed just one of them, he would have given his team an electric charge and we win!  He also had perfect conditions last night:

1.    Perfect Weather
2.    Playing at home
3.    Playing against the NFL's worst defenses that sustained injuries to three of it's best players   
4.    Really good pass protection

Despite near perfect conditions, we still couldn't secure a single TD. Both Sherman and Fitzpatrick talked about this during the post-game show.  Fitpatrick highlighted Jones' inability to accept some risk inside the red zone, which was primary reason the Giants failed to score TDs.  Sherman explicitly stated Jones' inability to make big throws emboldens the defense.  We witnessed that last night when Dallas elected to let their injury-riddled secondary execute a lot of one-on-ones, at the expense of stopping the run.  To put it plainly, even with Nabers, they simply had no respect for our big play ability, which is a direct byproduct of our QB's inaccuracy down the field.  YES, DJ was hampered by dropped passes, which are also inexcusable.  However, we simply must hit the big plays when they're available.  It almost cost us a win last week, and it certainly cost us a victory yesterday. 

DJ is exactly the QB most of us thought he would be with perfect pass-protection and a legit WR.  His current 17-game production is the definition of average to slightly above average: 

3744 YARDS/17 TDS/13 INT/64%COMP/ 80.8 RTG

The Giants can keep adding talent, but nothing will fundamentally change until we make a change at QB.  We're going on 6-years now...

[PSUBeirut]

Pass blocking was some of the best I've seen from the Giants in YEARS.  Run blocking left a ton to be desired.  I really like the combo of Nabers and Robinson.  If we could get another threat in the passing game from the TE or WR3 position, even better. 

Defense was ok, considering the injuries at CB.  I thought they held up ok.  It's a game we should have won.

[Gman329]

He won't - or Daboll won't - throw the effing ball up the effing field!!!!!  I an SO effing sick of 5 yard passes on 3rd and 9, and hope the receiver makes somebody miss. Hope is not a strategy!  His average pass distance has got to be among the lowest, if not the lowest in the league. 

[katkavage]

These were not last year's Cowboys. Besides the aged Elliot, I don't even know the name of their starting running back. They have a very good QB and one stud receiver. A nice TE. Their left tackle is raw and even Thibs abused him. They had given up more yardage on the ground the last two games than any team in the NFL. Yesterday they lost a good defensive lineman for most of the game(Lawrence). They were playing a few inexperienced DBs. Their best db got banged up but played. Parsons got banged up. Zach Martin left the game briefly. The Giants should have won. I hate hearing the "making strides" BS. The Cowboys were in bad shape yesterday and ripe for picking. That the Giants only lost to them by 5 points is celebrated is crazy and shows how far the franchise has fallen.

[babywhales]

Robinson running 3rd down routes on the short side of the first down and those drops were horrible .

The poor penalties and non calls were huge.
No call on hands to the face of Thibs a couple plays before the picked up flag (TD drive)
picked up flag on Hold when TV clearly showed grab jersey that led to turned torso
facemask on giants, called against giants


The drops were huge, Robinson had 2 on consecutive 3rd downs, but they were not TD's and no guarantees ,

Jones looked great at the underneath stuff, I only recall one back hip throw on a rail or drag route

The longer stuff was clearly consistently short.  The free play was an absolutely huge mistake by him, and the 2x time he has done that this year.  the only place that pass can miss is long and outside.  That was a huge rookie level mistake

So I overall I would say he was good, but not good enough to win as Dallas went back to the age old Jones killing defense, stop the run and force jones to go over the top.

I truly believe Jones gets the season to put forward his best case to be retained so I will agree last night was another positive step but he is running out of time

Daboll went for a FG with a newly signed kicker vs trusting his offense.  That is damning...

Giants let another one slip away and they could be 3-0

Onto Seattle

[Gmo11]

Fundamentally, I agree with you GMO; I've stated for the past few weeks that I believe we're closer to competing than some fans realize.  We have some formidable young talent, which includes two AP-type players in Dex and Thomas, and a budding super star in Nabers.  Banks has also held his own against the NFL's top 2 WRs.  The other young players in the secondary are also demonstrating they belong in the NFL.  We finally have a young nucleus starting to form on the defensive side of the ball.  I'm exceptionally optimistic about our future.

I do disagree with you concerning DJ; we continue to be hampered by his inabilities to make big plays.  I'll grant you he was really efficient last night; however, the misses to Nabers and Slayton for sure long TDs crushed this team.  If he completed just one of them, he would have given his team an electric charge and we win!  He also had perfect conditions last night:

1.    Perfect Weather
2.    Playing at home
3.    Playing against the NFL's worst defenses that sustained injuries to three of it's best players   
4.    Really good pass protection

Despite near perfect conditions, we still couldn't secure a single TD. Both Sherman and Fitzpatrick talked about this during the post-game show.  Fitpatrick highlighted Jones' inability to accept some risk inside the red zone, which was primary reason the Giants failed to score TDs.  Sherman explicitly stated Jones' inability to make big throws emboldens the defense.  We witnessed that last night when Dallas elected to let their injury-riddled secondary execute a lot of one-on-ones, at the expense of stopping the run.  To put it plainly, even with Nabers, they simply had no respect for our big play ability, which is a direct byproduct of our QB's inaccuracy down the field.  YES, DJ was hampered by dropped passes, which are also inexcusable.  However, we simply must hit the big plays when they're available.  It almost cost us a win last week, and it certainly cost us a victory yesterday. 

DJ is exactly the QB most of us thought he would be with perfect pass-protection and a legit WR.  His current 17-game production is the definition of average to slightly above average: 

3744 YARDS/17 TDS/13 INT/64%COMP/ 80.8 RTG

The Giants can keep adding talent, but nothing will fundamentally change until we make a change at QB.  We're going on 6-years now...

I apologize if I made it seem in any way that I want Jones back for another season.  I was saying this is as good as you're going to get from him and that's clearly not good enough. I'm glad he wasn't a complete disaster and was able to keep them in the game but the deep ball misses aren't even close.  You can get that level of production from a rookie and use the extra money to bring in like 3 other strong players. It doesn't make sense to keep him around past this season no matter how you slice it.  But what it did show me is that with almost competent QB play they could compete with the Cowboys.  With good QB play they beat them pretty easily.  With great QB play they're playoff contenders.  The team is close, the QB is not, so let's go get a QB and have some fun!

[kingm56]

I apologize if I made it seem in any way that I want Jones back for another season.  I was saying this is as good as you're going to get from him and that's clearly not good enough. I'm glad he wasn't a complete disaster and was able to keep them in the game but the deep ball misses aren't even close.  You can get that level of production from a rookie and use the extra money to bring in like 3 other strong players. It doesn't make sense to keep him around past this season no matter how you slice it.  But what it did show me is that with almost competent QB play they could compete with the Cowboys.  With good QB play they beat them pretty easily.  With great QB play they're playoff contenders.  The team is close, the QB is not, so let's go get a QB and have some fun!

After a second read, your articulation was clear...I should be the one to apologize.  In short, I 100% agree with you.