At the quarter (roughly) of the season revisiting some of the PS indicators

[y_so_blu]

The numbers for the completion of long passes by Jones are poor.   We know that Jones has it in him to throw deep, but he doesn't.  Matt Simms suggested some sort of technique issue.   Phil Simms suggested that Jones is trying to place the ball rather than letting it rip.   I wonder what his QB coach is doing to help him.  I hope it's not a result of his various injuries. 

Someone here speculated that Jones' touch on the deep ball has been missing since his last neck injury. I can't remember who it was, but after seeing him in the last few games, I agree.

[Trench]

Someone here speculated that Jones' touch on the deep ball has been missing since his last neck injury. I can't remember who it was, but after seeing him in the last few games, I agree.

His touch is also missing on the short passes

[todge]

Shouldn't we look at their targets and catch percentage before saying that they could be the worst catching TEs in the league?

My observation is not based on stats. I watch a lot of football and it seems as if our crew is the least talented.


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[T200]

My observation is not based on stats. I watch a lot of football and it seems as if our crew is the least talented.


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Ok 👍🏾

I appreciate the clarification. Sometimes, our eyes can see much more than what the numbers tell us.

[MightyGiants]

Someone here speculated that Jones' touch on the deep ball has been missing since his last neck injury. I can't remember who it was, but after seeing him in the last few games, I agree.

As Payton Manning can attest, neck injuries can be tricky

[todge]

All 22 shows it. And I've seen it watching replays. I've also seen Jones doesn't SEE it because he locked on.

The fact people here refuse to acknowledge these facts along with the eye test during the 1st 4 games is absolutely astonishing because this board is made up of excellent fans who see things.

I have to admit fellas - why is there always an excuse in defense of Jones, but rarely is anything "because" of Jones?

I offered an explanation before so perhaps you could counter -

Jones doesn't call the plays.. Daboll does. This is not a schoolyard game where you just snap the ball to the QB and he decides who to throw to. Each play has a primary, secondary and tertiary player or option (e.g. dump offs)

If his primary receiver isn't open, then he goes through his progressions. Your beef with the offense should be with the guy calling the plays. Right now, the TEs are not being utilized  but that's not Jones' fault as you claim it is.

I did notice your anti-Jones rants on game day threads. It's virtually 99% blaming Jones for virtually everything. "Refusing to acknowledge facts .." that you are directing towards us is not as cut and dry as you make it seem.

There are reasons why plays fail. Poor blocking, poor run routes and separation, and overall poor execution. Sometimes you have to give credit to the other team for playing good defense.

These are reasons ... not excuses (as you claim we are making).


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[todge]

His touch is also missing on the short passes

If his touch on all passes is so bad, then please explain the 72.5% completion percentage that included four drops and two heaves at the end of the game. Please explain the near elite PFF grade that was the highest of any Giant in the Dallas game.


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[kartanoman]

As Payton Manning can attest, neck injuries can be tricky

Any office worker, over 50, with stress in his shoulders and his neck locked up from working in from of a screen 12 hours a day can attest as well, such as myself.

The cervical spine, and the nervous system it is intended to protect, impacts muscles and ligaments throughout one's upper body. Depending the extent of Jones' neck and/or shoulder injuries, he could be experiencing phenomena ranging from varying degree of nerve pain/sensation issues, lack of full range of motion of C1 and C2 which control ability to turn one's head to damage impacting muscles and ligaments in/around his back.

We don't know what we don't know. Whether his injuries are directly impacting his performance is unknown. But we do know his history of throwing long and his strength and accuracy have always been inconsistent, to be diplomatic.

I still believe he is still working his way back from injury last season. Perhaps less so the injury part and more so getting the reps and field time. It may or may not make a difference in the end, but I have to think more snaps the better.

Let's revisit at mid-season and see if he's made any progress.

Peace!

[Trench]

I offered an explanation before so perhaps you could counter -

Jones doesn't call the plays.. Daboll does. This is not a schoolyard game where you just snap the ball to the QB and he decides who to throw to. Each play has a primary, secondary and tertiary player or option (e.g. dump offs)

If his primary receiver isn't open, then he goes through his progressions. Your beef with the offense should be with the guy calling the plays. Right now, the TEs are not being utilized  but that's not Jones' fault as you claim it is.

I did notice your anti-Jones rants on game day threads. It's virtually 99% blaming Jones for virtually everything. "Refusing to acknowledge facts .." that you are directing towards us is not as cut and dry as you make it seem.

There are reasons why plays fail. Poor blocking, poor run routes and separation, and overall poor execution. Sometimes you have to give credit to the other team for playing good defense.

These are reasons ... not excuses (as you claim we are making).


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Todge,
I take offense to what you stated and you are 100% wrong on the way you characterize me. On game day it is NOT 99% negative on Jones. You are incorrect in that assumption. I do hammer jones when he fails and I praise Jones when he succeeds. And when we are waiting for a play, nobody consistently cheers publicly for the man more than I do on this entire game thread.

Regarding the plays - you support my feelings. I realize Daboll calls plays. The issue is (unlike big time QBs), our guy rarely if ever changes the play and to make matters worse, he then locks on receivers almost all the time. The issue is he doesn't get to his 2nd option and probably gets to the 3rd option maybe 4% of the time. Last year our TWO backup QBs moved the team better than Jones. Now after a 1-3 start, I'm starting to see people here prop Jones up as having a really good season thus far. Well sorry to say, he isn't. Regarding Jones, I go back to Parcells and Al Davis quotes, 
"You are what your record says you are" and "Just Win Baby".


If I am incorrect, I will be happy to hear the BBH community push back hard.

[Philosophers]

If his touch on all passes is so bad, then please explain the 72.5% completion percentage that included four drops and two heaves at the end of the game. Please explain the near elite PFF grade that was the highest of any Giant in the Dallas game.


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Ted - all QBs experience drops so they are embedded in everyone's stats.  DJ's completion rate is misleading due to so many of his throws being short throws.  His Y/A is only 6.1. His Y/C is only 9.7.

Dabs may call the plays but DJ bails out with all his checkdown throws which only go for 3 yards a completion.  On a 3rd and 8 what difference does it make to be 4th and 5 vs 4th and 8?  He's go to throw to the sticks and he often does not.

[DaveBrown74]

Jones and the Giants in general have publicly said the neck is completely fine and a total non-issue at this point.

Now.. if we want to question whether they're telling the truth or not, ok, but it seems many here like to take anything the coaches and GM say at absolute face value when they say positive things about players who seem to be struggling.

[AZGiantFan]

Ted - all QBs experience drops so they are embedded in everyone's stats.  DJ's completion rate is misleading due to so many of his throws being short throws.  His Y/A is only 6.1. His Y/C is only 9.7.

Dabs may call the plays but DJ bails out with all his checkdown throws which only go for 3 yards a completion.  On a 3rd and 8 what difference does it make to be 4th and 5 vs 4th and 8?  He's go to throw to the sticks and he often does not.

His y/a is massively distorted by the game 1 outlier.  In the last 3 games his y/a is 6.8.  Not great, but not nearly as bad as 6.1.  I know, I know, "excuses".  But when outliers occur statistians try to analyze them to see why they occurred.  Which I did in another thread and was hit with the cry of EXCUSES!

Let's just wait to see what the full season brings.  I'm not one for predictions but I AM going to predict that game 1 turns out to be his worst game.  For the second year in a row - and I lay that more on Daboll's poor preseason that left the whole team unready to play and compete.

I seriously doubt he will do enough to stick around but I am committed to at least judging him fairly.

[H-Town G-Fan]

His y/a is massively distorted by the game 1 outlier.  In the last 3 games his y/a is 6.8.  Not great, but not nearly as bad as 6.1.  I know, I know, "excuses".  But when outliers occur statistians try to analyze them to see why they occurred.  Which I did in another thread and was hit with the cry of EXCUSES!

Let's just wait to see what the full season brings.  I'm not one for predictions but I AM going to predict that game 1 turns out to be his worst game.  For the second year in a row - and I lay that more on Daboll's poor preseason that left the whole team unready to play and compete.

I seriously doubt he will do enough to stick around but I am committed to at least judging him fairly.

If you want to fairly exclude outliers, you'd exclude both the best and worst of the set. Choosing just one--Jones's worst start--only biases the results (and we're already at a small sample). And if the 6.8 YPA yielded from this set is "not great"... That's his career high from 2022. So where are we in 2024 with a strong pass blocking offensive line, star wide receiver, and the passing production is still more of the same (which was only acceptable in 2022 because the rushing game carried the team)?

[MrGap92]

I offered an explanation before so perhaps you could counter -

Jones doesn't call the plays.. Daboll does. This is not a schoolyard game where you just snap the ball to the QB and he decides who to throw to. Each play has a primary, secondary and tertiary player or option (e.g. dump offs)

If his primary receiver isn't open, then he goes through his progressions. Your beef with the offense should be with the guy calling the plays. Right now, the TEs are not being utilized  but that's not Jones' fault as you claim it is.

I did notice your anti-Jones rants on game day threads. It's virtually 99% blaming Jones for virtually everything. "Refusing to acknowledge facts .." that you are directing towards us is not as cut and dry as you make it seem.

There are reasons why plays fail. Poor blocking, poor run routes and separation, and overall poor execution. Sometimes you have to give credit to the other team for playing good defense.

These are reasons ... not excuses (as you claim we are making).


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Except 95% of the time he doesnt ever look past his primary option. I mean look at the target share Malik and Robinson have, he isn't looking at the other options.

[Philosophers]

His y/a is massively distorted by the game 1 outlier.  In the last 3 games his y/a is 6.8.  Not great, but not nearly as bad as 6.1.  I know, I know, "excuses".  But when outliers occur statistians try to analyze them to see why they occurred.  Which I did in another thread and was hit with the cry of EXCUSES!

Let's just wait to see what the full season brings.  I'm not one for predictions but I AM going to predict that game 1 turns out to be his worst game.  For the second year in a row - and I lay that more on Daboll's poor preseason that left the whole team unready to play and compete.

I seriously doubt he will do enough to stick around but I am committed to at least judging him fairly.

The YPA of 6.1 is his average over 4 games.  It's really bad.  The top 10 passing offenses have Y/A over 7.0 (mostly 7.3 - 7.8) except for Seattle at 6.8 however the Y/C of the top 10 are all over 10.0 with most between 11 - 13.  DJ's Y/C may be even worse though both are bad.