Quarterbacks

[T200]

Not being happy with an underperforming QB is normal and to be expected.  I am talking about the special brand of vitriol that so many Giants fans have had or still have for Daniel Jones.  Hell, just look at when each was drafted.  Almost all Jets fans cheered the drafting of Darnold.  Half the Giants fans were booing Daniel Jones before he even took a single NFL snap.

Darnold was highly touted going into the draft. Jones was not on anyone's radar but Gettleman's and Mara's. You can't compare the two when it comes to their college resumes.

[Philosophers]

Maybe but he's only going to want a long term deal, he's going to be in that Jones/Mayfield type bracket. I'm not sure the benefits of the rookie deal can be felt with Darnold being paid.

The rookie contract benefits will be less optimal for sure but it will be more an insurance policy.

[MightyGiants]

Darnold was highly touted going into the draft. Jones was not on anyone's radar but Gettleman's and Mara's. You can't compare the two when it comes to their college resumes.

Tim,

That's not exactly true, from what I heard.  I heard there were other NFL teams (not NFL draftniks) who were high on Daniel Jones.  Even Mike Lombardi eluded to Daniel Jones (he didn't mention him specifically by name, but going back to the podcast post-draft it was clear that was the player he was referring to, because he heard NFL people commenting) being a surprise high pick but changed his tune after the Giants drafted him and the uproar it caused.

One thing I am mindful of when it comes to draftniks, they like to look like they are right.  They will praise teams to the high heavens if they do what they say they should do and crucify them when they don't.  They are hardly the end all be all when it comes to a process that everyone agrees involves a heavy degree of chance.

Still, more importantly, we can agree that Darnold was treated better than Jones until his poor playing started to sour him with fans (how much so is clearly up for debate). 

[Philosophers]

I do not believe DJ's career will all of a sudden evolve into a Rich Gannon, Baker Mayfield or Jared Goff type excellence.  DJ was either not good enough from the beginning or became gun shy after injuries and sacks but he is usable at this point. 

[H-Town G-Fan]

Darnold was highly touted going into the draft. Jones was not on anyone's radar but Gettleman's and Mara's. You can't compare the two when it comes to their college resumes.

Even Paul Schwartz alluded to this in his article from yesterday:

It was always going to be a long shot that Jones made it to a seventh year with the team that over-drafted him (No. 6 overall) in 2019. The desire to find the next Eli Manning in temperament, comportment, demeanor and play-style led to an overevaluation of this particular player, but this does not need to be relitigated. It is the here and now that matters and Jones is here now but not for much longer.

[MightyGiants]

I do not believe DJ's career will all of a sudden evolve into a Rich Gannon, Baker Mayfield or Jared Goff type excellence.  DJ was either not good enough from the beginning or became gun shy after injuries and sacks but he is usable at this point. 

That's a point that most seem to agree on and is perhaps the most important point.  The only issue being even more important and relevant is what NYG does about the situation.

[Philosophers]

That's a point that most seem to agree on and is perhaps the most important point.  The only issue being even more important and relevant is what NYG does about the situation.

I sint think the reason matters and folks seem foolish to debate the reason.  We have an usable QB and a dearth of talent.

[MightyGiants]

I sint think the reason matters and folks seem foolish to debate the reason.  We have an u(n)sable QB and a dearth of talent.

To your last point, this is why I am surprised half the fans said the team is headed in the right direction.  Other than talent and a franchise QB, this team is all set.

[Painter]

Daniel Jones will not be the Giants QB next season for reasons of performance/cost. It's not solely a consequence of a 41-24-1 record with just one winning season in what will have been 7, but also the obvious fact that for all of his other attributes, he is essentially unable to "provide a spark" as Daboll explained in yanking him on Sunday in favor of a less talented Drew Lock.

Combine that with a savings of $80+ million against $20 odd million of dead cap money, and I can't imagine- for all the excuses we might make- how DJ is still here next year.

As for what the Giants may do in next year's Draft, I have no idea beyond the fact that odds of what is seen as success are 60/40 at best and can be prove to zero on occasion. Rarely does it bring with it more than a sense of relief and newly found yet forced optimism.

Who among us can forget Gettleman's reference to "QB Purgatory" the year before he took Daniel 6th overall? It now seems that he was both right and wrong. Of course, it's unlikely that Buffalo and Balitmore would see it as such.

Cheers!

[Philosophers]

Giants will be drafting top 10 for sure in 2025.  They draft QB for sure in round 1.  Doubt Dabs will be coaching him.

My money is on Jalen Milroe at this point.  Cam Ward has funky release plus has not played enough good competition.  That's why Miami is not ranked in top 3 as one of few undefeateds.

[AZGiantFan]

Please remind me how much different the offensive line was between 2022 and the six games Jones played to start 2023. How is it that "he was playing very well and won an impressive game in Minnesota" behind that line but struggled mightily to start the season?

For one thing in 2022 the OL gave up 2.75 sacks per game while in 2023 they gave up an average of 5.6 sacks per game that he played fully.  In the first 5 games he had games where he got sacked 10, 7, and 6 times, while he was never sacked more than 5 times in a game in 2022.

Then there's the factor that Daboll's country club preseason and merry-go-round OL that gave them no time to gel and get some chemistry led to incredibly poor pass blocking and a significant drop-off in run blocking.  And he didn't get the support from Saquon's running in 2023 that he did in 2022.  In the 5 disastrous opening games of 2023 Saquon got 51, 63, and was out injured for the other 3.

And Jones got barely any playing time in preseason compared to  prior years.  In 2022 he started 2 games and had 26 pass attempts.  In 2023 he started 1 game and 9 pass attempts. As a reminder, the team went 5-1 in the opening of 2022 and 1-5 in the opening of 2023.  Which team was more prepared to be competitive?

Some may deride these things as excuses, but you asked "how is it he was playing very well and won an impressive game in Minnesota" behind that line but struggled mightily to start the season?" and I think these are very cogent answers.  It doesn't absolve him of all responsibility, but makes the case that the poor 2023 was largely due to factors out of his control.

I know folks are now bitching about a variety of things about Daboll's coaching and they may have good points.  But the root of the problem, IMO, and the underlying reason he gets fired, if he does, is that he had a preseason regimen that worked in 2022 and then changed it completely for 2023 and put the team back into the downward spiral he was hired to reverse.  Personally I think the Coach of the Year award went to his head and made him arrogant.

[Stringer Bell]

Giants will be drafting top 10 for sure in 2025.  They draft QB for sure in round 1.

I don't think that's a sure thing at all. I've seen mocks where Ward and Sanders are the only 2 QBs selected in the first round. And the ones that include other QBs like Milroe and Ewers have them going in the back half of the round.

I have to believe Sanders is a non-starter for the Giants. And with Cleveland and Carolina almost certainly picking ahead of us, you'd have to believe that whoever ends up being the consensus top QB (Ward?) will be gone before our pick.

Last thing this team should do is reach again for a subpar talent, especially when guys like Will Johnson or Jalon Walker could be available.

[T200]

For one thing in 2022 the OL gave up 2.75 sacks per game while in 2023 they gave up an average of 5.6 sacks per game that he played fully.  In the first 5 games he had games where he got sacked 10, 7, and 6 times, while he was never sacked more than 5 times in a game in 2022.

Then there's the factor that Daboll's country club preseason and merry-go-round OL that gave them no time to gel and get some chemistry led to incredibly poor pass blocking and a significant drop-off in run blocking.  And he didn't get the support from Saquon's running in 2023 that he did in 2022.  In the 5 disastrous opening games of 2023 Saquon got 51, 63, and was out injured for the other 3.

And Jones got barely any playing time in preseason compared to  prior years.  In 2022 he started 2 games and had 26 pass attempts.  In 2023 he started 1 game and 9 pass attempts. As a reminder, the team went 5-1 in the opening of 2022 and 1-5 in the opening of 2023.  Which team was more prepared to be competitive?

Some may deride these things as excuses, but you asked "how is it he was playing very well and won an impressive game in Minnesota" behind that line but struggled mightily to start the season?" and I think these are very cogent answers.  It doesn't absolve him of all responsibility, but makes the case that the poor 2023 was largely due to factors out of his control.

I know folks are now bitching about a variety of things about Daboll's coaching and they may have good points.  But the root of the problem, IMO, and the underlying reason he gets fired, if he does, is that he had a preseason regimen that worked in 2022 and then changed it completely for 2023 and put the team back into the downward spiral he was hired to reverse.  Personally I think the Coach of the Year award went to his head and made him arrogant.

To my knowledge and recollection, 2023 featured the same five guys that ended 2022. While you and I are on the same page regarding Jones needing preseason playing time (coming off of major injury and surgery, new offensive line coach, and three new line members), I don't think it was as imperative prior to the 2023 regular season. Now, that's not to say it would not have benefited the team, but seeing how they returned the same line as the previous season, I feel it was less of a necessity.

Regarding the sacks, it was widely analyzed and acknowledged that Jones ran himself into or held the ball much longer than needed, which ultimately resulted in half or more than half of the sacks he endured during those six games.

I can't say one way or the other if he was arrogant post COTY. I do think the award provided a sense of accomplishment. In my view, he (and Schoen, and probably the rest of the NFL world) knew the uphill battle they had on their hands with Jones. Daboll was supposed to work his magic with him and squeeze all the juice out of him that he could. And he did.

And he's taking hits because he can't get more juice out of him, knowing how low Jones's ceiling is. 

[MightyGiants]

Daniel Jones will not be the Giants QB next season for reasons of performance/cost. It's not solely a consequence of a 41-24-1 record with just one winning season in what will have been 7, but also the obvious fact that for all of his other attributes, he is essentially unable to "provide a spark" as Daboll explained in yanking him on Sunday in favor of a less talented Drew Lock.

Combine that with a savings of $80+ million against $20 odd million of dead cap money, and I can't imagine- for all the excuses we might make- how DJ is still here next year.

As for what the Giants may do in next year's Draft, I have no idea beyond the fact that odds of what is seen as success are 60/40 at best and can be prove to zero on occasion. Rarely does it bring with it more than a sense of relief and newly found yet forced optimism.

Who among us can forget Gettleman's reference to "QB Purgatory" the year before he took Daniel 6th overall? It now seems that he was both right and wrong. Of course, it's unlikely that Buffalo and Balitmore would see it as such.

Cheers!

Larry,

When you consider the actual quote, I think it might be reasonable to say NYG has gone right past purgatory and straight into QB hell.  This team would need some major improvement to be around the 8-8 mark and I don't even think vast amounts of resources will necessarily allow the team to acquire a franchise QB anytime soon (with the proviso that things can change)

Gettleman was talking about how teams reach for a passer in the NFL Draft and end up stuck in a football purgatory without an elite player at the most important on the field. They either shuffle along in the middle of the league -- 7-9, 8-8, 7-9 -- or they need to use a vast amount of resources to correct the mistake.Sep 29, 2020

[todge]

Maybe, but I will say I still have serious doubts about the guy.  I can't help but look at his physical abilities and wonder why he wasn't a starter for so many years at the college level.   I suspect there is something in his mental makeup that we are not privy to.

Milton  - cannon for an arm but very inaccurate

Ward - let's keep in mind he entered the 2023 conditional Draft and received a 75-150 grade which is 3rd Round. He enrolled at Miami to improve his Draft stock and it worked. But the fact that he tried to enter the Draft and was ranked significantly lower than any of the years top ranked QB is a red flag to me.

I'm with you Rich when it comes to Jones. I think a lot of people believe the Giants are a QB away and I couldn't disagree more. Jones rose to 12th in QBR despite a huge amount of drops; his coach stated he was "  locked in" and the Giants were still 1 and 3. As you know, the other 21 guys and the coaching staff also  impact Ws and Ls.


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