The Giants have more problems than Daniel Jones

[sxdxca38]

Are you asking me if I think the OLT should have blocked his man? Is that a serious question or are you trying to be condescending? The OLT didn't block his man because he's a washed up right tackle who has no business playing left tackle. In the same way Daniel Jones has no business starting at QB in the NFL. Jones saw the rusher and instead of eating the ball he made a feeble attempt at the kind of play Pat Mahomes does on a routine basis. The difference is Mahomes has the talent to make those plays and Daniel Jones is a special needs QB who cannot be trusted with the ball.

Hi Doc,

Asking a question if the LT was responsible for Daniel Jones being sacked is not a condescending question at all. In fact, it's a very simple yes or no answer, which for some reason those who are critical of DJ will not answer. 

Furthermore, it's generally not good to call Daniel Jones a "special needs" QB, especially after putting up a 72.5 QBR a 119.0 RTG and posting an elite 90 PFF rating.

As far as the fumble and sack was concerned, Daboll has admitted that the play was a screen, DJ was looking to his right, the LT was supposed to hold his block but completely whiffed, and allowed a free rusher right at DJ's blind side which he did not see. When DJ turns to his left while in the process of making the throw to the RB, the DE was already on him.

[sxdxca38]

You don't consider QB the most important position in football?

It isn't an obsession, we have all admitted there are other areas of the team we all feel are also needing improvement, you just choose to hyperfixate on Jones and don't see those posts.

It turned out with them trying to trade up and move on. If they believed in DJ, they would not have attempted it.

I consider the QB the most important player on the team, but one who cannot compensate for the other 52 players if they aren't doing their job.

[T200]

I consider the QB the most important player on the team, but one who cannot compensate for the other 52 players if they aren't doing their job.

He doesn't have to compensate for 52 players. He can elevate the play of the other offensive players by how well he plays. For instance, he can throw the pass to where the receiver is going to be, not where he is. If the defender is trailing, the receiver doesn't have to slow down to catch the pass and giving the defender an opportunity for a PBU. Instead, he doesn't lead the WR, the defender smacks the receiver's arm while he's trying to catch the ball, and even though it hits his hands, it gets counted as a drop. Just one example of how a little thing is crucial to QB play and the success of a play.

[Gmo11]

He doesn't have to compensate for 52 players. He can elevate the play of the other offensive players by how well he plays. For instance, he can throw the pass to where the receiver is going to be, not where he is. If the defender is trailing, the receiver doesn't have to slow down to catch the pass and giving the defender an opportunity for a PBU. Instead, he doesn't lead the WR, the defender smacks the receiver's arm while he's trying to catch the ball, and even though it hits his hands, it gets counted as a drop. Just one example of how a little thing is crucial to QB play and the success of a play.

Not to mention setting up protections properly, knowing if there is going to be a free rusher and where that guy is going to be coming from, and how to handle it properly without hanging your OL out to dry by running directly into sacks.  It's why the position is so difficult that we can't even find 12 humans that can do it at an elite level.  You are asking the QB process a lot of information in an extremely small amount of time. Some people excel at this, and others like Jones can't do it.  I'm sure Jones is a smart guy and will be very successful in future endeavors, but he's not made to be a good NFL QB.  We've given him enough help around him and enough coaches at this point to be pretty certain of that.

[T200]

Shannon Sharpe just said, "If Daniel Jones is the answer, what's the question?" 

[MrGap92]

I consider the QB the most important player on the team, but one who cannot compensate for the other 52 players if they aren't doing their job.

You ignored the other two parts of my paots. Why are you cherry picking the first one?

[MrGap92]

Shannon Sharpe just said, "If Daniel Jones is the answer, what's the question?" 

I may be in the minority, but I have always loved Shannon Sharpe, he made Undisputed fun to watch. Once he left it went to hell for me.

[T200]

I may be in the minority, but I have always loved Shannon Sharpe, he made Undisputed fun to watch. Once he left it went to hell for me.

He has unique takes and is on point for a majority of them. Always a good listen.

[sxdxca38]

You ignored the other two parts of my paots. Why are you cherry picking the first one?

You only asked one question in your first post, you never asked any other questions in your other statements.

When you make a statement the other party isn't required to respond, this is general etiquette, and that is what a statement does.

Furthermore, it's generally not good to blame others for cherry picking when you clearly have cherry picked your own post.

Ill leave you with that

[sxdxca38]

He doesn't have to compensate for 52 players. He can elevate the play of the other offensive players by how well he plays. For instance, he can throw the pass to where the receiver is going to be, not where he is. If the defender is trailing, the receiver doesn't have to slow down to catch the pass and giving the defender an opportunity for a PBU. Instead, he doesn't lead the WR, the defender smacks the receiver's arm while he's trying to catch the ball, and even though it hits his hands, it gets counted as a drop. Just one example of how a little thing is crucial to QB play and the success of a play.

Hi Tim,

I appreciate your response here, and it is thoughtful.

However the QB cannot stop a 60 yard punt return for a TD which we saw a few weeks ago go in Pittsburgh.

He has no control over what the defense unit does on his team.

He cannot stop Malik Nabers from not committing an illegal shift and taking away another passing TD.

He can't stop an OT from committing an illegal procedure and taking away a 56 yard catch and run.

There are a plethora of more examples that the QB has no control over.

The old saying is true, when the team wins the QB gets all of the credit, and when the team loses the QB gets all of the blame.

[DaveBrown74]

This idea that is becoming increasingly pervasive around here, which is that anyone who is critical of Jones is claiming that Jones is singularly responsible for the team's losing and that the other 52 players don't matter, is feeling more and more like a deliberate straw man designed to create a false narrative that doesn't exist and then continue to gaslight everyone about it to deflect away from what is in fact legitimate criticism.

NOBODY here thinks Jones is singularly responsible for everything and that the other players don't matter. Not one poster. It is a 100% false narrative.

[T200]

Hi Tim,

I appreciate your response here, and it is thoughtful.

However the QB cannot stop a 60 yard punt return for a TD which we saw a few weeks ago go in Pittsburgh.

He has no control over what the defense unit does on his team.

He cannot stop Malik Nabers from not committing an illegal shift and taking away another passing TD.

He can't stop an OT from committing an illegal procedure and taking away a 56 yard catch and run.

There are a plethora of more examples that the QB has no control over.

The old saying is true, when the team wins the QB gets all of the credit, and when the team loses the QB gets all of the blame.

I'm talking QB and you're talking defense. Once again, ignoring Jones and his area of responsibility and influence. I and GMO highlighted a couple of situations where the QB most definitely influences and impacts the play of others.

But instead, you turn a blind eye and mention the defense. If the QB has no influence over an OT getting flagged, why are we talking about it? It has nothing to do with the performance of the QB.

[MrGap92]

You only asked one question in your first post, you never asked any other questions in your other statements.

When you make a statement the other party isn't required to respond, this is general etiquette, and that is what a statement does.

Furthermore, it's generally not good to blame others for cherry picking when you clearly have cherry picked your own post.

Ill leave you with that

Well, isn't that convenient for you.

You say its not good, then do it yourself, its contradictory.

Call it what you want, you purposely remove facts that go against the point you are trying to make, while also omitting context frequently, if that isnt cherry picking, idk what is. What term would you prefer I use? Conveniently selective?

[kingm56]

This idea that is becoming increasingly pervasive around here, which is that anyone who is critical of Jones is claiming that Jones is singularly responsible for the team's losing and that the other 52 players don't matter, is feeling more and more like a deliberate straw man designed to create a false narrative that doesn't exist and then continue to gaslight everyone about it to deflect away from what is in fact legitimate criticism.

NOBODY here thinks Jones is singularly responsible for everything and that the other players don't matter. Not one poster. It is a 100% false narrative.

Jeff, there are 4 posters working overtime to create these strawmen arguments, as well as convince others that DJ's failures are a byproduct of his environment and/or supporting cast.  However, his 17-game projection is on pace to equal his other years.   It's also not lost on me that said posters concluded DJ was accenting to be a top-tier and/or franchise QB.  I guess creating these strawmen arguments and false narratives somehow makes them less wrong?  Regardless, it's pointless to engage in conversation as they focus on 1% of the data (e.g. one play or one game) that supports their narrative, while simultaneously omitting the other 99% of data that directly refutes their point.  It's a source of amusement to watch them oscillate between the metrics they value.  I remember when yards weren't important, until DJ was briefly in the NFL's top 10 passing leaders, then it was important. I recall QBR being considered MUCH more valuable than RTG, until DJ's rating eclipse his QBR; now, the former is presented as evidence over the latter.  In fact, now that DJ is #24 in QBR, it's no longer used as a viable metric. This oscillation makes it impossible to engage in an intelligent and honest dialogue.   I'm choosing not to engage with them as it's a fruitless task.

[EDjohnst1981]

Jeff, there are 4 posters working overtime to create these strawmen arguments, as well as convince others that DJ's failures are a byproduct of his environment and/or supporting cast.  However, his 17-game projection is on pace to equal his other years.   It's also not lost on me that said posters concluded DJ was accenting to be a top-tier and/or franchise QB.  I guess creating these strawmen arguments and false narratives somehow makes them less wrong?  Regardless, it's pointless to engage in conversation as they focus on 1% of the data (e.g. one play or one game) that supports their narrative, while simultaneously omitting the other 99% of data that directly refutes their point.  It's a source of amusement to watch them oscillate between the metrics they value.  I remember when yards weren't important, until DJ was briefing in the NFL's top 10 passing leaders; I recall QBR being considered MUCH more valuable than RTG, until DJ's rating eclipse his QBR; now, the former is presented as evidence over the latter.  In fact, now that DJ is #24 in QBR, it's no longer used as a viable metric. This oscillation makes it impossible to engage in an intelligent and honest dialogue.   I'm choosing not to engage with them as it's a fruitless task.

Yes, I've said previously I believe it's so they can't be wrong. They came on the attack so much when people questioned the contract being signed.

It appears they simply do not want to lose face. Despite a now, oddly enough, deleted thread that was that had countless posts declaring something "Im so glad the giants have found their franchise quarterback".

It's hard to backtrack from such "I know better than you" nonsense that populated that thread.

Jones has had six years. If you want to see more, I honestly don't know what you've been watching.

He's not the only problem, but he's absolutely not the solution either.