DJ told Nabers he couldn't see the open receivers because of the defenders in

[kingm56]

J.T. O'Sullivan did his live Q&A today. One of the questions was "Is Daniel Jones finished!" His response was that he's been finished. He has no desire to review or even watch a game. Quite frankly or to be brutally frank, I don't recall him doing a breakdown of Jones in at least a year.

My assessment of Daboll's play calling is that he runs what he needs to for Jones. He's been inserting more Runs and he's been trying to come up with plays for YAC, but there is a lack of execution. I suspect there is a lot more he would do if he had a QB who could throw with anticipation. It's at the point where it's almost Dave Brown like. When Kerry Collins came on the scene it seemed almost electrifying in how he was hitting Receivers in stride. Jones attempts at doing this have resulted in these off target passes. So he hits checkdowns, comebacks and soft spot sits in Zone. Even the deep throws are usually off target. On the Penalty where Jalin got mugged, he had his man beat but if it was clean, he still would have had to make a diving catch.

I don't know if Daboll is creative and innovative as a play caller because he and Kafka haven't had the opportunity to show it. Most of you here slammed Garrett's calls as vanilla and Shurmur did a lot of one or two read plays. Someone mentioned Daboll as the common denominator but with all due respect, the target was way off as Jones' passes have been.

I'm not sure if it was Mitch or Joseph who said that when a team drafts a QB, they usually will make a change that year in the HC. That's a real possibility. Perhaps Brian's song is he Petered (PP) out as an OC. His next gig will likely be that. It's going to get very ugly for the rest of this season and I don't think John Mara has the stomach for it, as Messiah said.

I agree with Tim—great post, Ed. I don't agree with firing Daboll, but if they chose to go that route, I'd understand. That said, Schoen should absolutely stay; his 2024 draft class has been well above average.

[sxdxca38]

Daball and Schoen came to that conclusion years ago, which is why they chose not to pick up his 5th year option, signed him to a contract with a 2-year out, and attempted to trade with NE to acquire his replacement.  The only reason DJ is still on the team is because in 2 of 3 draft, there wasn't a QB they liked at the position they drafted.  That's why I'm willing to give Schoen another season; he was correct about DJ.

I would agree with you that they declined his 5th year option originally because at that time they didn't think he was the right fit.

However, after working with Daniel during the 2022 year, and seeing what Daboll was able to do with him, they decided to re-sign him.

I believe at that time they thought they could win with him.

However, I agree that they really wanted Jayden Daniels, but there was no way they could have gotten him. Drake Maye probably was on the table as well, but New England wasn't going to trade the pick either.

So, they made the best decision possible, and that was to give Daniel Jones a legitimate #1 WR in Nabers, and to see if he could carry them.

As the year has played out, it has become clear that they need to move on and try to find the answer at QB.

Maybe they draft one in 2025 but definitely no later than 2026, in my opinion.

[sxdxca38]

That's good to see that you've come around. I do recall that you also cautioned us to not be rash and let the season play out as that is what you were going to do before making up your mind.

So, I'm curious... what changed for you?

Once again, thank you Tim for your kind words, they mean a lot.

It wasn't just one game, but several of them.

The end of the Pittsburgh game, he had a chance to win the game with two minutes left and he threw a terrible interception way over the RB's head.

Last game he was missing wide open guys, throwing balls in the dirt to low. Threw an interception right off the panther's defenders' helmet, popped up for a pick.

Finally, when the play breaks down, he cannot create something out of nothing, when the great ones can, and he really struggles with accuracy when he's on the move throwing the ball.

Let me say this, do I think Daniel Jones is a terrible QB? No, I do not.

However, do I think he is great? Absolutely not.

He's better than Dave Brown from the 90's, but he's not the answer moving forward.

If the Giants keep up the losing and get the 2nd pick in the draft, the right move is to draft a new QB, release DJ and save over 40 million in cap space, and try to reload at the QB position.

It hurts to say it because we all invested six years into DJ, but its better to cut your losses now, than double down for another 3-4 years. Let's move forward and try to find the right guy at the most important position.

[T200]

Once again, thank you Tim for your kind words, they mean a lot.

It wasn't just one game, but several of them.

The end of the Pittsburgh game, he had a chance to win the game with two minutes left and he threw a terrible interception way over the RB's head.

Last game he was missing wide open guys, throwing balls in the dirt to low. Threw an interception right off the panther's defenders' helmet, popped up for a pick.

Finally, when the play breaks down, he cannot create something out of nothing, when the great ones can, and he really struggles with accuracy when he's on the move throwing the ball.

Let me say this, do I think Daniel Jones is a terrible QB? No, I do not.

However, do I think he is great? Absolutely not.

He's better than Dave Brown from the 90's, but he's not the answer moving forward.

If the Giants keep up the losing and get the 2nd pick in the draft, the right move is to draft a new QB, release DJ and save over 40 million in cap space, and try to reload at the QB position.

It hurts to say it because we all invested six years into DJ, but its better to cut your losses now, than double down for another 3-4 years. Let's move forward and try to find the right guy at the most important position.

Kudos to you for being objective and open-minded enough to really watch his play and his effect on the team both good and bad.

[sxdxca38]

Kudos to you for being objective and open-minded enough to really watch his play and his effect on the team both good and bad.

Thank you my friend

[B1GBLUE]

I think there are two major differences between the far more successful 2022 offense and this totally dysfunctional offense

1)  coaching and scheme

2) DJ is broken

By broken, I mean he has the yips, he sees ghosts, it's PTSD, he's lost confidence, whatever you want to call it.  DJ isn't the same QB he was by the end of 2022.

All true. He just falls short where it matters. inaccurate throws, late reads... its just not going to cut it.

[MightyGiants]

Not a single poster supports your methodology

This is exactly the sort of flawed thinking that frustrates me.  It's sort of hypocritical of you to accuse me of employing logical fallacies only to turn around and engage in a textbook example of Ad populum fallacy.


The logical fallacy of arguing that everyone agrees with you is called the ad populum fallacy, also known as the bandwagon fallacy:
 
Explanation: This fallacy occurs when someone argues that a belief or action is correct because the majority of people support it. It takes advantage of the desire to fit in and be liked, which is known as the "bandwagon effect"

You didn't identify and explain a flaw in my methodology (which I make easy to do since I explain my methodology and lay out my assumptions), but rather you simply feel I must be wrong because people whose prior opinions would be disputed due to the study, objected to the results.  That's really not good way of doing things, in my opinion. 

Look, I don't want to be fighting you.  I appreciate you tossed my last olive branch (via PM) right back into my face, but I don't want to be at odds with you.  I would like to be able to discuss things with you in an intelligent, respectful, and non-challenging manner.  I want to talk about our ideas and assertions.  I don't want to get into pissing contests about past records or credentials.  While I am a man who is appreciative of expertise, when we have discussions, I think our ideas should stand on the supporting arguments.   I think you are an intelligent man, and I don't see any malice in you.   We should be getting along great, not having these discussions.