Conflicting Narratives

[H-Town G-Fan]

And that one, I agree with you 100%

I would have preferred that scenario much more myself, so on that one, we agree.

I would even prefer DJ getting the tag if it meant Barkley left a year sooner (maybe he would have landed elsewhere too), cause at least Jones is fully off the books, which would be better cap wise than the year 2 out.

A Barkley/Tracy duo would be fun to watch.

DJ had a $15MM cap hit in 2023 due to the contract he signed, which pushed more money into 2024 and 2025. It would have been $18MM more on the cap in 2023 if they franchised him (total $33MM). As I recall, this was part of the issue--franchising DJ was a strong option, but the cap implications because of the position valuation were difficult to reconcile with the rest of the required team building. To put it in broader strokes: in 2023 the Giants entered with Barkley at $10MM (franchise tag) and Jones at $15MM, for a total of $25MM. Assume that's what they could pay for the combined positions without cutting short the other facets of the team they needed to improve: there's simply no way to achieve that low a combined cap hit when you franchise Jones--you're already $8MM over it before even taking into account Barkley's contract. I think they would have loved to flip-flop the contracts and franchise Jones and long-term deal with Barkley, but it was largely infeasible if you actually wanted to retain both and make improvements to the squad overall. I can't recall perfectly, but I think if they franchised Jones the Giants wouldn't have had any real flexibility in the 2023 offseason if they franchised Jones.

[MightyGiants]

DJ had a $15MM cap hit in 2023 due to the contract he signed, which pushed more money into 2024 and 2025. It would have been $18MM more on the cap in 2023 if they franchised him (total $33MM). As I recall, this was part of the issue--franchising DJ was a strong option, but the cap implications because of the position valuation were difficult to reconcile with the rest of the required team building. To put it in broader strokes: in 2023 the Giants entered with Barkley at $10MM (franchise tag) and Jones at $15MM, for a total of $25MM. Assume that's what they could pay for the combined positions without cutting short the other facets of the team they needed to improve: there's simply no way to achieve that low a combined cap hit when you franchise Jones--you're already $8MM over it before even taking into account Barkley's contract. I think they would have loved to flip-flop the contracts and franchise Jones and long-term deal with Barkley, but it was largely infeasible if you actually wanted to retain both and make improvements to the squad overall. I can't recall perfectly, but I think if they franchised Jones the Giants wouldn't have had any real flexibility in the 2023 offseason if they franchised Jones.

Schoen signed AT and Dex to big contracts as well.   It would have been easy to use those contracts to shift cap money lost by giving DJ the franchise tag

[H-Town G-Fan]

Schoen signed AT and Dex to big contracts as well.   It would have been easy to use those contracts to shift cap money lost by giving DJ the franchise tag

He certainly could have. Schoen has shown a reticence to push significant dollars into the future. The Giants have a healthy cap as a result--though, a healthy cap without win/loss production isn't exactly something to brag about.

[MrGap92]

DJ had a $15MM cap hit in 2023 due to the contract he signed, which pushed more money into 2024 and 2025. It would have been $18MM more on the cap in 2023 if they franchised him (total $33MM). As I recall, this was part of the issue--franchising DJ was a strong option, but the cap implications because of the position valuation were difficult to reconcile with the rest of the required team building. To put it in broader strokes: in 2023 the Giants entered with Barkley at $10MM (franchise tag) and Jones at $15MM, for a total of $25MM. Assume that's what they could pay for the combined positions without cutting short the other facets of the team they needed to improve: there's simply no way to achieve that low a combined cap hit when you franchise Jones--you're already $8MM over it before even taking into account Barkley's contract. I think they would have loved to flip-flop the contracts and franchise Jones and long-term deal with Barkley, but it was largely infeasible if you actually wanted to retain both and make improvements to the squad overall. I can't recall perfectly, but I think if they franchised Jones the Giants wouldn't have had any real flexibility in the 2023 offseason if they franchised Jones.

Makes sense, thanks for that explanation.

That actually makes alot of sense, and probably explains why they went the route they did. I don't think I accounted for the increased positional value in my head.

[MightyGiants]

He certainly could have. Schoen has shown a reticence to push significant dollars into the future. The Giants have a healthy cap as a result--though, a healthy cap without win/loss production isn't exactly something to brag about.

Schoen did push significant with DJ's contract, which is Dex or AT's contract would have had to pick up the slack if they had tagged DJ.   

As for Schoen's pay as you go, he certainly doesn't have much to brag about with the losing, in my opinion it's a position to be in if you are losing.   I like to say the only worse than being a bad team is being a bad team in cap hell.

[todge]

I don't think his assessment fit DJ to a tee, especially through the lens of DJ's rookie and year 4 perfance.  Why did DJ play much worse in years 5 and 6?   Why was QB guru Pat Shurmur so high on DJ?  Why did Greg Cosell study DJ's NFL film and declare he had franchise QB talent?   Why did Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah say DJ has franchise QB potential just last week?  Why did the Broncos and Washington want to draft DJ in round one?   Why did Mike Lombardi say the NFL was high on DJ and he would be a surprise first round QB?

McShay has also been wrong a lot. Now he's tooting his horn coming out six years later and bragging he knew Jones wouldn't pan out. No wonder ESPN fired him. He was the outlier with the vast majority of scouts loving Daniel Jones. Mel Kiper and many other NFL Front Offices also had him rated highly. Not one player from Duke was drafted Jones' senior year. Jones was MVP of the Senior Bowl and lit up the Combine with his measurables, athleticism and arm talent. As I've stated before - Phil Simms said right on WFAN - Boomer Esiason Show that he knew of four teams who were poised to select Jones before 10.

Let's remember Jones burst on the scene his rookie year throwing 24 TDs in 12 games until a high ankle sprain and key injuries to his OL derailed him. In the years following, he was the victim of numerous coaching changes and the worst offensive lines in the league that led to a stream of injuries that have plagued him. John Mara was right in stating "we did all we could in screwing up Daniel Jones."

I just finished reading "Sunday Morning Quarterback " by Phil Simms ( Amazon) - recommended by you Rich. I firmly believe that if fans would read that book, they will gain a different perspective on just what it is like to be a NFL Quarterback.


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