Eagles fans chant "Thank you Giants"...

[MightyGiants]

Aaaaannnnnnndddd this is why I didn't want to get into this with you.

No one outside of 1925 Giants Way knows what the vision is, if there is one. The only thing the front office owes fans is to put a respectable product on the field every week. They don't need to divulge the details of what they do, how they do it, and what their vision is.

Minus the first sentence, I don't disagree with what you said. However, I think there are couple of important points to consider.

1)  While teams will keep tactical strategy/plans closely guarded secrets, they tend to be less guarded with their strategic thinking.  It's why we heard about George Young's only so many dancing elephants on the planet theory when it came to him valuing big, graceful linemen in his team building; it's why we know EA felt you could never have too many pass rushers.  It's why we know that Gettleman believed you needed a team that could run, stop the run, and get to the opposing pass rusher.

2)  Being in the biggest media market, having Hard Knocks film the Giants off-season, and providing Tyler Dunne (who does deep-dive NFL articles) heavy access to the team would suggest it's not very likely that at least some of Schoen's team-building philosophy (if it exists) would have reached the public

[Ed Vette]

Good for him. Hopefully for him, he stays healthy. Who was the guy we banned who repeatedly said he was shot, along with a lot of other dumb xxxx?

I wonder how Tyrone Tracy would be doing on the Eagles? He's not too shabby of a replacement with over 5 YPC.
Or Slayton for that matter... Good assets shouldn't be given away, but some moves make sense. Comprende?

In the meantime, Brian Burns, Eleumenor, Runyon, GVR and Stinnie, and the end of the DJ excuses...

Barkley and McKinney still here and the Giants would still be 2-8. Unless of course Jayden Daniels was in Blue.

[MightyGiants]

Incessant whining reduces the merit in whatever may be our position as it becomes difficult to tell whether it's water over or under, or the fault of the turf, Ronnie Barnes or just absence of a plan.

Sorry, but I forget who said that.

Cheers!

Larry, you need to listen to Mike Lombardi's podcast, where he goes over the role of Ronnie Barnes in the Giants organization and strongly suggests that Barnes is a significant part of the problems causing the Giatn's overall dysfunction.

[MightyGiants]

JS already said there are some things he wish he could have done differently. What those things are, we don't know. What we do know is that this is his and Daboll's first time in their respective positions. We also know that not one person in the history of employment nailed every decision that was made.

I've said many more times than I need to that this mess wasn't created under this administration. It. Takes. Time. There are too many folks expecting a great Thanksgiving turkey to come out of the microwave.

Edit to add: No one is absolving them or ignoring the decisions that didn't work out for the team. He needs to be evaluated on everything, not just the stuff that didn't work.

There is a practical matter to consider.  I have found that there are two types of decisions in management.  The first is one you are called on to make.  You evaluate all information and make your call based on your beliefs as a manager, and live with the results very much as you describe.

The second is very similar only in this scenario your boss, while still allowing you the freedom to choose, weighs in and gives his opinion on which way the decision should go.  If you go against the wishes of your boss and that decision doesn't prove to be the better one, the consequences are often worse than just making a wrong choice.

[T200]

Minus the first sentence, I don't disagree with what you said. However, I think there are couple of important points to consider.

1)  While teams will keep tactical strategy/plans closely guarded secrets, they tend to be less guarded with their tactical thinking.  It's why we heard about George Young's only so many dancing elephants on the planet theory when it came to him valuing big, graceful linemen in his team building; it's why we know EA felt you could never have too many pass rushers.  It's why we know that Gettleman believed you needed a team that could run, stop the run, and get to the opposing pass rusher.

2)  Being in the biggest media market, having Hard Knocks film the Giants off-season, and providing Tyler Dunne (who does deep-dive NFL articles) heavy access to the team would suggest it's not very likely that at least some of Schoen's team-building philosophy (if it exists) would have reached the public

I don't and won't knock the guy because he hasn't publicly stated his vision for the franchise. Hard Knocks provided absolutely zero value to me aside from a few nuggets regarding the interaction between Mara and Schoen.

I will evaluate him by the product he puts on the field each week, taking everything into consideration as much as possible. His stating (or not stating) his vision is not one of those items I will evaluate.

For you and GiantLeap and others, have at it.

[T200]

There is a practical matter to consider.  I have found that there are two types of decisions in management.  The first is one you are called on to make.  You evaluate all information and make your call based on your beliefs as a manager, and live with the results very much as you describe.

The second is very similar only in this scenario your boss, while still allowing you the freedom to choose, weighs in and gives his opinion on which way the decision should go.  If you go against the wishes of your boss and that decision doesn't prove to be the better one, the consequences are often worse than just making a wrong choice.

We have strayed so far from the issue of vision.

Back on topic, I hope Barkley breaks his personal season records and the Eagles lose in the first round.

[EDjohnst1981]

Aaaaannnnnnndddd this is why I didn't want to get into this with you.

No one outside of 1925 Giants Way knows what the vision is, if there is one. The only thing the front office owes fans is to put a respectable product on the field every week. They don't need to divulge the details of what they do, how they do it, and what their vision is.

Completely agree. And as I said in the summer, you're not getting it from 4 x 44 mins episodes. And if you can glean a vision from that, it's probably not worth having.

For me - I think their vision was to survive, get a QB they want and accumulate offensive talent - they have the legit wideout, they decided to move on from a high priced back and look elsewhere. Both ticks in my boxes.

[MightyGiants]

Completely agree. And as I said in the summer, you're not getting it from 4 x 44 mins episodes. And if you can glean a vision from that, it's probably not worth having.

For me - I think their vision was to survive, get a QB they want and accumulate offensive talent - they have the legit wideout, they decided to move on from a high priced back and look elsewhere. Both ticks in my boxes.

It's not just Hard Knocks; it's all the pressers, all the reporters, people with NYG inside information like Mike Lombardi, and deep-dive reporters like Tyler Dunne given special access.

[EDjohnst1981]

It's not just Hard Knocks; it's all the pressers, all the reporters, people with NYG inside information like Mike Lombardi, and deep-dive reporters like Tyler Dunne given special access.

It's cool. We can disagree. I respect your point, I simply disagree with it.

[MightyGiants]

I don't and won't knock the guy because he hasn't publicly stated his vision for the franchise. Hard Knocks provided absolutely zero value to me aside from a few nuggets regarding the interaction between Mara and Schoen.

I will evaluate him by the product he puts on the field each week, taking everything into consideration as much as possible. His stating (or not stating) his vision is not one of those items I will evaluate.

For you and GiantLeap and others, have at it.

You are certainly free to believe a team-building vision exists even without any evidence.  You are also welcome to choose how you evaluate any aspect of the Giants organization.

[uconnjack8]

Barkley looks like he might have lost a few pounds to me.  His burst is certainly there at this point.  And there isn't much dancing behind the LOS when there isn't 330 pound DLs hitting him as he gets the handoff. 

[Woody]

This is why you fire the GM. He should have traded Barkley when he had a chance. To have him in the same division and tormenting the Giants is borderline sabotage on the GM's part. What Schoen lacks is a vision for the Giants and that is one of the General Manager's biggest goals.

Agreed

[Painter]

Larry, you need to listen to Mike Lombardi's podcast, where he goes over the role of Ronnie Barnes in the Giants organization and strongly suggests that Barnes is a significant part of the problems causing the Giatn's overall dysfunction.

I give much less credit to Lombardi for anything whatever he has to say than I give to you on this particular topic, Rich. Perhaps, you didn't already know that.

Cheers!

[MightyGiants]

I give much less credit to Lombardi for anything whatever he has to say than I give to you on this particular topic, Rich. Perhaps, you didn't already know that.

Cheers!

Larry,

You certainly welcome the evidence and commentary by Mike Lombardi.  I just consider it rather relevant in terms of explaining the decade-plus of futility

[Messiah717]

Forget hard knocks.  They're 2-8 in this regimes third year.  What have they done to be excited about?