The latest draft order and why 2nd overall was meaningless

[MightyGiants]

I understand, between Judge and his tree as a whole with HCs, why should anyone fee confident in any succession plan of his?

I think there are two reasons why Belichick's coaching tree (which Daboll is a branch) hasn't been as successful as one might anticipate.

1)  Bill Belichick has generational brilliance.   Most coaching trees are successful because assists learn from and copy from other successful head coaches.   "Just be brilliant," while a correct lesson, isn't one most coaches can take value from.

2) I have started to listen to Belichick on podcasts.  He isn't talkative or informative.  It's great to be brilliant, but if you can't effectively share all that brilliance your brain holds, it's going to be harder for your coaching tree to flourish. 

[T200]

I think there are two reasons why Belichick's coaching tree (which Daboll is a branch) hasn't been as successful as one might anticipate.

1)  Bill Belichick has generational brilliance.   Most coaching trees are successful because assists learn from and copy from other successful head coaches.   "Just be brilliant," while a correct lesson, isn't one most coaches can take value from.

2) I have started to listen to Belichick on podcasts.  He isn't talkative or informative.  It's great to be brilliant, but if you can effectively share all that brilliance your brain holds, it's going to be harder for your coaching tree to flourish. 

Do you mean "can effectively" or "can't effectively"?

[MightyGiants]

Do you mean "can effectively" or "can't effectively"?

can't

[MrGap92]

can't

So that brings me back to my point, if BB were younger, and/or I can have more faith in his succession plan, I would be more on board with him, I don't question his ability too much. It's more long term. If he can't express and share his brilliance, knowledge, call it whatever, in a couple short year, if not immediately, we are back to where we were.

I read, and respect both points, I am just struggling to see how the "next branch" can be successful

[T200]

So that brings me back to my point, if BB were younger, and/or I can have more faith in his succession plan, I would be more on board with him, I don't question his ability too much. It's more long term. If he can't express and share his brilliance, knowledge, call it whatever, in a couple short year, if not immediately, we are back to where we were.

I read, and respect both points, I am just struggling to see how the "next branch" can be successful

That's why I asked for clarification. The second statement doesn't support the suggestion.

[MightyGiants]

So that brings me back to my point, if BB were younger, and/or I can have more faith in his succession plan, I would be more on board with him, I don't question his ability too much. It's more long term. If he can't express and share his brilliance, knowledge, call it whatever, in a couple short year, if not immediately, we are back to where we were.

I read, and respect both points, I am just struggling to see how the "next branch" can be successful

The current coach of the Pats is also technically a branch on the Belichick tree and his rookie coaching year is going pretty well (considering the level of talent).  Then again, Daboll's rookie coaching season also looked impressive.

To me, I see the Giants as dysfunctional and with a broken culture.  Hiring some younger, hot, first-time head coach is likely to get swallowed up in that dysfunction rather than fix it.  I think the team needs a quality head coach with pelts on the wall who knows what a good culture looks like and has the experience of getting a team to that vision (like Tom Coughlin did when he came here).

I also like Mike Vbrell, who is a pseudo Belichick branch (since he played for him rather than coached under him) as a younger head coach, but he has still shown that he knows how to set the culture for his team.

I wish we were in a position where the team had at least an okay culture, and they could hire the next young hot coordinator, but this team needs more than just a good Xs and Os coach.  They need an experienced alpha with a good vision of how successful football teams operate.

[Trench]

The current coach of the Pats is also technically a branch on the Belichick tree and his rookie coaching year is going pretty well (considering the level of talent).  Then again, Daboll's rookie coaching season also looked impressive.

To me, I see the Giants as dysfunctional and with a broken culture.  Hiring some younger, hot, first-time head coach is likely to get swallowed up in that dysfunction rather than fix it.  I think the team needs a quality head coach with pelts on the wall who knows what a good culture looks like and has the experience of getting a team to that vision (like Tom Coughlin did when he came here).

I also like Mike Vbrell, who is a pseudo Belichick branch (since he played for him rather than coached under him) as a younger head coach, but he has still shown that he knows how to set the culture for his team.

I wish we were in a position where the team had at least an okay culture, and they could hire the next young hot coordinator, but this team needs more than just a good Xs and Os coach.  They need an experienced alpha with a good vision of how successful football teams operate.

When is the Lions coach Campbell contract up? lol

[MightyGiants]

When is the Lions coach Campbell contract up? lol

I liked him as a player.   I followed him as a coach hoping he would make his way back to the Giants.   That said, I would be lying if said I knew he would be as successful as he has been with the Lions.

[MrGap92]

The current coach of the Pats is also technically a branch on the Belichick tree and his rookie coaching year is going pretty well (considering the level of talent).  Then again, Daboll's rookie coaching season also looked impressive.

To me, I see the Giants as dysfunctional and with a broken culture.  Hiring some younger, hot, first-time head coach is likely to get swallowed up in that dysfunction rather than fix it.  I think the team needs a quality head coach with pelts on the wall who knows what a good culture looks like and has the experience of getting a team to that vision (like Tom Coughlin did when he came here).

I also like Mike Vbrell, who is a pseudo Belichick branch (since he played for him rather than coached under him) as a younger head coach, but he has still shown that he knows how to set the culture for his team.

I wish we were in a position where the team had at least an okay culture, and they could hire the next young hot coordinator, but this team needs more than just a good Xs and Os coach.  They need an experienced alpha with a good vision of how successful football teams operate.

IF Daboll gets fired, and IF we went with a retread. Vrabel would be high on my list in such a scenario.

I just can't get behind Belichick for the reasons I stated, to me it would be a bandaid and not a fix.

[MightyGiants]

IF Daboll gets fired, and IF we went with a retread. Vrabel would be high on my list in such a scenario.

I just can't get behind Belichick for the reasons I stated, to me it would be a bandaid and not a fix.

along the medical lines, I would liken hiring Belichick to calling an ambulance.  An ambulance isn't going to cure the patient but they will stabilize them and bring them to a facility where they can get better.

[DaveBrown74]

I'd be disappointed if they fire Pierce after his first season.

No QB, traded Devante, no RB, idk he hasn't had anything to work with.

I think this is a very fair take, and I agree with it. To fire Pierce after one year (plus a partial year where he did very well) seems totally impetuous to me.

Granted, I'm not in the building everyday and don't know all the internal dynamics. But on its face it seems unreasonable to only give him one year.

[jgrangers2]

Anyone else notice that the Giants went from 5 to 4 based on Dallas losing Monday night? Obviously there's still a long way to go, but just shows how fickle the draft order is right now especially with so many bad teams out there.

[MightyGiants]

Anyone else notice that the Giants went from 5 to 4 based on Dallas losing Monday night? Obviously there's still a long way to go, but just shows how fickle the draft order is right now especially with so many bad teams out there.

Dallas tanking helps weaken the Giant's strength of schedule (which is currently acting as a big tiebreaker).  I see Dallas and Cleveland as the teams that most threaten the Giants' quest for the top draft pick

[katkavage]

The Giants need to be top 5 minimum. 4 is better. As of now there are three QBs who are close in evaluations. The Giants need to draft one of those three. The highest ranked player is Hunter from Colorado. He will go in the top three. Maybe number one since he is a two way star. Dallas will not pick a QB.

[MightyGiants]

The Giants need to be top 5 minimum. 4 is better. As of now there are three QBs who are close in evaluations. The Giants need to draft one of those three. The highest ranked player is Hunter from Colorado. He will go in the top three. Maybe number one since he is a two way star. Dallas will not pick a QB.

I see Ward and Sanders, who is your number three?