NYG going with DeVito bump their odds of picking #1 from 12% to 21%

[MightyGiants]

So it's my fault???

How about this? Get rid of the damned "LIKE" feature because you use it to target people!!! Why the hell do you care who likes a post... just so you can blame me because I "LIKE" a post and you automatically assume it's because of something derogatory you feel they said?

You're always the victim and never the instigator, right Rich? Go have a look in the mirror and enjoy your day.

I will share with you that there have been posts where I agreed wth some or much of what was posted.  I refrained from liking the post because there was also questionable content that I didn't want to be seen as endorsing.  For better or worse, as owner or admin, our likes mean more than just our personal feelings, as we represent more than ourselves. 

[Trench]

I will share with you that there have been posts where I agreed wth some or much of what was posted.  I refrained from liking the post because there was also questionable content that I didn't want to be seen as endorsing.  For better or worse, as owner or admin, our likes mean more than just our personal feelings, as we represent more than ourselves. 

I can't believe you are arguing about a "like" button! Why is it here then?...hitting "like" is not an attack - it's agreeing with a post. In the grand scheme of things it's basically freedom of speech of sorts.

Referring to people as "usual suspects" is antagonist and disrespectful. I myself got in trouble here for referring in the past to "the jones or bust crew"...how is what I got in trouble for anything different than what you posted in this instance?

[TDToomer]

Playing the victim card and endless fighting by "usual suspects". It must be a Wednesday on the Big Blue Huddle.

There should be an Unlike button. 

[MightyGiants]

Just to sum up what has been discussed.

A few weeks back, I requested an effort to return to civility and focus our discussions on football and the Giants.


A post was made that had nothing to do with football but rather distorted a comment about kicking a player while they are down (in this case, all but fired in name only).

Many people thought that the post didn't talk about football but rather focused exclusively on talking about other people. The forum was something they approved of and agreed with to the point of hitting the like button.

When the person who appeared to be the target of this post and the distortion of his position, restated what had actually been said and noted that they were disappointed by so many people encourage a textbook example of what we needed to avoid to return to civility the following responses were made:

1)  why have a like button if we are going to be held accountable for what we like?

2)  Forget the logical and factual points that were made; I am going to trump that by accusing you of pretending to be a victim.  The great thing about that accusation is that it doesn't have to be even remotely true, and it immediately ends the factual discussion that wasn't going in the favor of the accusor.


Look, we are all in this together.  Right now (and for the past decade) it has sucked to be a Giants fan more often than not.   You guys can continue with sniping and bickering with your fellow posters, or you can honor my request that we try to focus our discussion on football rather than each other.

The choice is yours.   This forum is what we make it.   It can be less than pleasant to give into your lesser angles and put others down, or we can follow the old saying about misery-loving company and focus on the cause of our unhappiness (the NY Giants) rather than one another.

I will share; it's not fun being the owner.  I have to always be the grown-up.  My posts need to be calm and reasoned.  I don't get to enjoy the luxury you enjoy of being rude, angry, or engaging in logical fallacies (if I get something wrong, I have people lining up to correct me).   I will also share my frustration.  I am not happy with the way things are going in the world at large.  I had hoped that I could escape some of the ugliness with this forum, but the same animosity, division, and unpleasantness are here as well.   While logically, I understand that it's natural for the disharmony of the world to seep into our little cyber family of Giants fans, in my heart, I don't know why we are not trying to build one another up and support one another rather than obsessively trying to tear one another down.   I am not referring to disagreement either.  I love the intellectual challenges of a good debate or lively discussion.  It keeps my brain sharp and helps me refine my views.   I just don't understand why disagreements always turn personal like they do.   It's not just one another, either.  I strive to bring quotes from qualified individuals to spark discussion.  Yet, often, the first comment isn't about what that person said; it's a putdown of the person making the comment.   I think I am getting old because I don't find that sort of conversation all that fun or mentally fulfilling.

[T200]

Just to sum up what has been discussed.

A few weeks back, I requested an effort to return to civility and focus our discussions on football and the Giants.


A post was made that had nothing to do with football but rather distorted a comment about kicking a player while they are down (in this case, all but fired in name only).

Many people thought that the post didn't talk about football but rather focused exclusively on talking about other people. The forum was something they approved of and agreed with to the point of hitting the like button.

When the person who appeared to be the target of this post and the distortion of his position, restated what had actually been said and noted that they were disappointed by so many people encourage a textbook example of what we needed to avoid to return to civility the following responses were made:

1)  why have a like button if we are going to be held accountable for what we like?

2)  Forget the logical and factual points that were made; I am going to trump that by accusing you of pretending to be a victim.  The great thing about that accusation is that it doesn't have to be even remotely true, and it immediately ends the factual discussion that wasn't going in the favor of the accusor.


Look, we are all in this together.  Right now (and for the past decade) it has sucked to be a Giants fan more often than not.   You guys can continue with sniping and bickering with your fellow posters, or you can honor my request that we try to focus our discussion on football rather than each other.

The choice is yours.   This forum is what we make it.   It can be less than pleasant to give into your lesser angles and put others down, or we can follow the old saying about misery-loving company and focus on the cause of our unhappiness (the NY Giants) rather than one another.

I will share; it's not fun being the owner.  I have to always be the grown-up.  My posts need to be calm and reasoned.  I don't get to enjoy the luxury you enjoy of being rude, angry, or engaging in logical fallacies (if I get something wrong, I have people lining up to correct me).   I will also share my frustration.  I am not happy with the way things are going in the world at large.  I had hoped that I could escape some of the ugliness with this forum, but the same animosity, division, and unpleasantness are here as well.   While logically, I understand that it's natural for the disharmony of the world to seep into our little cyber family of Giants fans, in my heart, I don't know why we are not trying to build one another up and support one another rather than obsessively trying to tear one another down.   I am not referring to disagreement either.  I love the intellectual challenges of a good debate or lively discussion.  It keeps my brain sharp and helps me refine my views.   I just don't understand why disagreements always turn personal like they do.   It's not just one another, either.  I strive to bring quotes from qualified individuals to spark discussion.  Yet, often, the first comment isn't about what that person said; it's a putdown of the person making the comment.   I think I am getting old because I don't find that sort of conversation all that fun or mentally fulfilling.

LOOK. IN. THE. MIRROR.

In that entire diatribe, you did not take responsibility for your role in the downfall of this site. Yes, you provide excellent content but you are also a HUGE contributor into how things devolve.

For example: it was YOUR post that lamented the "kicking a guy when he's down." What was the football-related message in that? What were the stats associated with it? You're the one who made it personal and presented your views as some moral high ground and that those who continued to talk about Jones in a less than positive light were painted to be mean-spirited.

When you got push-back, then you want to fall back to, "I requested civility and an end to personal attacks."

Listen: it is your site. Do as you please. Just as you stick up for Jones from our perceived attacks, I will stick up for the general membership from yours.

[MightyGiants]

LOOK. IN. THE. MIRROR.

In that entire diatribe, you did not take responsibility for your role in the downfall of this site. Yes, you provide excellent content but you are also a HUGE contributor into how things devolve.

For example: it was YOUR post that lamented the "kicking a guy when he's down." What was the football-related message in that? What were the stats associated with it? You're the one who made it personal and presented your views as some moral high ground and that those who continued to talk about Jones in a less than positive light were painted to be mean-spirited.

When you got push-back, then you want to fall back to, "I requested civility and an end to personal attacks."

Listen: it is your site. Do as you please. Just as you stick up for Jones from our perceived attacks, I will stick up for the general membership from yours.

Tim,

You know that is a fair point.  I did mention in my posts (not post exclusively about my pet peeve) my frustration at the kick-the-man-while-he-is-down approach.  I said that because the overwhelming majority of responses to my posts (regardless of topic) was some variation of "Daniel Jones sucks"  That was just responses to me, even the thank you Daniel Jones post had variations of Daniel Jones sucks.

There was a post by Len directed at me, where he aired a laundry list of what he considered my faults (something Len just loves to do, and you never call him out, you save that for me) and one of his comments was about how he feels that he finds my negative comments about Schoen or Daboll tiresome.   Now it's not like there are a many posters joining me in those critiques of the management of our 2-8 team.  So imagine how it feels when 75% of the posts being put on the forum involve some sort of put down of the QB who has essentially been fired and isn't going to ever impact another Giants game?

Would you prefer, I just walk away from the forum in disgust over what the board had become, or would you prefer I just mention what was bothering me?

[TDToomer]

Would you prefer, I just walk away from the forum in disgust over what the board had become, or would you prefer I just mention what was bothering me?

Utilize the PM function. Most of your complaints are things that could be settled privately. I think I speak for many who are flat out sick of your endless fighting with the mods. 

[MightyGiants]

Utilize the PM function. Most of your complaints are things that could be settled privately. I think I speak for many who are flat out sick of your endless fighting with the mods. 

I will share something with you if I have frequently asked the moderator to show me the respect and courtesy of PMing me if they had an issue with something I said.   You can see how that has worked out for me.

It's kind of funny. While many people respect me, there are a good number of people who show me zero respect for me as the owner of the forum or even as a person.  I literally have to fight for anything I want. Then I have people turn around and complain that I have to fight for what I want.

As I said, I came here to enjoy talking football, not to get into fights.  If you want to disagree with a point I make, have at it and challenge the point as strongly as you wish (just please don't target me as a person, instead).  Just keep in mind that most of my views are the result of considerable thought (and often research), so I will defend my dissertation (To borrow a scholastic term).  Just don't think that because I defend my position, I "haven't listened to you" or that "I don't respect you."

Also, I probably don't acknowledge it enough, but while completely changing my view is rare (like most people), a well-reasoned counterpoint often causes me to make adjustments in my own position.

[TDToomer]

I will share something with you if I have frequently asked the moderator to show me the respect and courtesy of PMing me if they had an issue with something I said.   You can see how that has worked out for me.

It's kind of funny. While many people respect me, there are a good number of people who show me zero respect for me as the owner of the forum or even as a person.  I literally have to fight for anything I want. Then I have people turn around and complain that I have to fight for what I want.

As I said, I came here to enjoy talking football, not to get into fights.  If you want to disagree with a point I make, have at it and challenge the point as strongly as you wish (just please don't target me as a person, instead).  Just keep in mind that most of my views are the result of considerable thought (and often research), so I will defend my dissertation (To borrow a scholastic term).  Just don't think that because I defend my position, I "haven't listened to you" or that "I don't respect you."

Also, I probably don't acknowledge it enough, but while completely changing my view is rare (like most people), a well-reasoned counterpoint often causes me to make adjustments in my own position.

I think you take this forum waaaaaaay too seriously.

[MightyGiants]

I think you take this forum waaaaaaay too seriously.

As the owner of the forum, it sort of comes with the territory.  There are reasons we have lasted for 17 years, outside of the core of outstanding remembers.   Internet forums are not the hot item they were 20 years ago.  It takes a lot of work and effort (along with my cash since we don't have ads or membership dues) to keep the forum running and thriving (not just me but the moderators as well)

Unfortunately, when you invest that sort of time, effort, and money into a project, you reach a point where "not taking it seriously is not an option.   That said, I can't guarantee the efforts that appeared aimed at driving me away will not ultimately prove successful, especially in light of how little return there is on being a Giants fan these days.