This week we will witness a turning point in this team's fortunes

[MightyGiants]

The Giants face two teams with losing records in the Bucs (4-6) and the Cowboys (3-7).   By the end of this week we should have a clearer picture of what path this team into the future.

Should the Giants win both games, Schoen's and Daboll's jobs should be secured and the team will stay intact with the biggest challenging being acquiring a franchise QB while having a middle of the pack draft position.

If the Giants lose both games this week, Daboll will likely be gone.  Schoen's future would be cloudy.  The team will likely end up near the top of the draft order, and likely will be drafting their QB for the foreseeable future in the next draft.

The scenario that would create the least clear picture would be a split.  With a split, it's a possible scenario that the team ends up nearer the top of the draft, which means a better chance at drafting a franchise quarterback.  Of course, Daboll, while keeping his job, may not be assured of just one more victory.  A split will likely require the rest of the season to fully gauge if the team will be making any changes in management.

Still, for a team that is out of contention and essentially playing meaningless games (outside of impacting draft position), this could very well prove to be a turning point in this team's future and fortunes.

[Gmo11]

I just don't see how even losing out will cost them their jobs. I think mara owes them a shot to do it with their own QB. We made every excuse in the book for Jones for 6 years and it turns out he just stinks. I think we can give these guys a chance with a real QB.

I guess if they completely quit on the season and get blown out by 30 every week then fine but I think these guys are going to play hard, Devito is at least going to make things more interesting than 3 yard dump offs every play and if we're lucky have moments of actual competency.

The roster is mostly solid with the missing pieces outside of QB being filled this off-season. Schoen is taking a beating in the media particularly over Barkley but that was the right decision there. His biggest mistakes was the Jones contract and even that he was smart enough to make an out after just 2 years.

Dabolls offense has been getting receivers open constantly and consistently all season. He recently won coach of the year. Having a QB that's not terrified to throw the ball is likely going to make him look a lot smarter. 

My opinion is that they've both done their jobs well enough to deserve at least a shot with a real QB. I'd give it to them if I were in charge.

[MightyGiants]

I just don't see how even losing out will cost them their jobs. I think mara owes them a shot to do it with their own QB. We made every excuse in the book for Jones for 6 years and it turns out he just stinks. I think we can give these guys a chance with a real QB.

I am not following.  You claim "excuses" were made for DJ's poor performance, but ultimately, they needed to move on because he "stinks."  Yet you advocate making excuses for Schoen's and Daboll's poor performance after 3 years.   Based on your own example (that you cited), why should we believe the failure of Schoen and Daboll to improve the team after three seasons isn't due to lack of ability?

I mean, here's the narrative you have been pushing. Fans could see DJ was no good (not even at the backup level, based on your comments on the new DJ thread).   Schoen and Daboll took over three years ago.   Presumably, if they are capable of leading a team to a championship, they could see that DJ stunk even back in 2022.  Yet despite this knowledge, for three years, not only have they not tried to acquire a viable alternative, but they also signed him to what was effectively a two-year $40 million per contract.   Since there is zero evidence (and plenty of evidence to the contrary) that Mara didn't FORCE the two to keep DJ as the starter the last 3 years, why should we assume their efforts resulted in making a bad team even worse? wouldn't they continue?

[Gmo11]

I am not following.  You claim "excuses" were made for DJ's poor performance, but ultimately, they needed to move on because he "stinks."  Yet you advocate making excuses for Schoen's and Daboll's poor performance after 3 years.   Based on your own example (that you cited), why should we believe the failure of Schoen and Daboll to improve the team after three seasons isn't due to lack of ability?

I mean, here's the narrative you have been pushing. Fans could see DJ was no good (not even at the backup level, based on your comments on the new DJ thread).   Schoen and Daboll took over three years ago.   Presumably, if they are capable of leading a team to a championship, they could see that DJ stuck even back in 2022.  Yet despite this knowledge, for three years, not only have they not tried to acquire a viable alternative, but they also signed him to what was effectively a two-year $40 million per contract.   Since there is zero evidence (and plenty of evidence to the contrary) that Mara didn't FORCE the two to keep DJ as the starter the last 3 years, why should we assume their efforts resulted in making a bad team even worse, not going to continue?

I think you mischaracterized a whole bunch of stuff. To be clear Jones might make a great backup one day. Possibly next season. He's not likely to contribute much this season for any team since he's joining so late and he's not likely to be a starting QB because, and this part is true, he stinks.

I said we were willing to afford Jones a million excuses big and small but we can't afford the Daboll/schoen combo one rather large one?

I'd say there is plenty of evidence to suggest neither one of them wanted Jones when they were hired for the plethora of reasons we've gone over ad nauseum don't need to get into. And then after 2022 something changed. They're biggest mistake to me was not sticking to their original plan. Regardless of if it was their idea or Mara's.

And as far a backup QB what sense would it make for the Giants to bring in a QB that's better than their starter? They're asking for a mutiny. If even Taylor was still around it could have led to trouble having outplayed Jones just last season.

[MightyGiants]

I think you mischaracterized a whole bunch of stuff. To be clear Jones might make a great backup one day. Possibly next season. He's not likely to contribute much this season for any team since he's joining so late and he's not likely to be a starting QB because, and this part is true, he stinks.

I said we were willing to afford Jones a million excuses big and small but we can't afford the Daboll/schoen combo one rather large one?

I'd say there is plenty of evidence to suggest neither one of them wanted Jones when they were hired for the plethora of reasons we've gone over ad nauseum don't need to get into. And then after 2022 something changed. They're biggest mistake to me was not sticking to their original plan. Regardless of if it was their idea or Mara's.

And as far a backup QB what sense would it make for the Giants to bring in a QB that's better than their starter? They're asking for a mutiny. If even Taylor was still around it could have led to trouble having outplayed Jones just last season.

If we adjust our focus to see past Daniel Jones, we see a GM who appears to have missed on 2 out of 3 draft classes and failed to improve the talent level on the roster (the Giants are rated as having one of the least talented rosters in the league.

As Mike Lombardi points out, a head coach doesn't just coach his players; he coaches his assistant coaches as well.  On that front, Daboll appears to have failed in a rather spectacular fashion, both in the coaches he has chosen and the success they have achieved.

Even with Daniel Jones, you concede they made a huge blunder.


What is it that makes you believe that these two men are equipped to drastically turn around the Giants' fortunes?

Even the whole, let them pick their own QB because they picked Josh Allen needs to be qualified by the fact that both men were assistants and not actually responsible for that decision.   The QBs the Giants have been responsible for are Daniel Jones, DeVito, Tyrod, and Drew Lock

[EDjohnst1981]

I genuinely don't believe the regime would have made the change from "Franchise QB" to 3rd string UDFA if they didn't have assurances about their position next year.

It's as simple as that for me.

[Philosophers]

I just don't see how even losing out will cost them their jobs. I think mara owes them a shot to do it with their own QB. We made every excuse in the book for Jones for 6 years and it turns out he just stinks. I think we can give these guys a chance with a real QB.

I guess if they completely quit on the season and get blown out by 30 every week then fine but I think these guys are going to play hard, Devito is at least going to make things more interesting than 3 yard dump offs every play and if we're lucky have moments of actual competency.

The roster is mostly solid with the missing pieces outside of QB being filled this off-season. Schoen is taking a beating in the media particularly over Barkley but that was the right decision there. His biggest mistakes was the Jones contract and even that he was smart enough to make an out after just 2 years.

Dabolls offense has been getting receivers open constantly and consistently all season. He recently won coach of the year. Having a QB that's not terrified to throw the ball is likely going to make him look a lot smarter. 

My opinion is that they've both done their jobs well enough to deserve at least a shot with a real QB. I'd give it to them if I were in charge.

I am not sure if there's a real QB.  I like Sanders but want to understand more about this ref incident.

I also like Milroe but I am seeing an inconsistency that is troubling especially given the talent around him.

[MightyGiants]

I genuinely don't believe the regime would have made the change from "Franchise QB" to 3rd string UDFA if they didn't have assurances about their position next year.

It's as simple as that for me.

Interesting

I guess if Schoen and Daboll believe that their best chance to win was to keep starting Daniel Jones, your belief makes sense.  Afterall, what difference does the injury guarantee make if one or both are still not working for the team?

[EDjohnst1981]

Interesting

I guess if Schoen and Daboll believe that their best chance to win was to keep starting Daniel Jones, your belief makes sense.  Afterall, what difference does the injury guarantee make if one or both are still not working for the team?

Jones was the best QB on the roster.

They should be pulled over the coals for that very fact.

But I don't think they should lose their jobs over it. They were smart in the design of the contract.

But I think it's madness to stake your jobs on DeVito. So I don't imagine that's the case.

[MightyGiants]

Jones was the best QB on the roster.

They should be pulled over the coals for that very fact.

But I don't think they should lose their jobs over it. They were smart in the design of the contract.

But I think it's madness to stake your jobs on DeVito. So I don't imagine that's the case.

Your comments remind me of this Tweet by Justin Penack

https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1860430583978946874

[EDjohnst1981]

Your comments remind me of this Tweet by Justin Penack

https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1860430583978946874

Your comments remind me of this Tweet by Justin Penack

https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1860430583978946874

Apologies but I don't see your point?

I'm not shifting the blame from Jones to someone else.

[MightyGiants]

Apologies but I don't see your point?

I'm not shifting the blame from Jones to someone else.

To clarify, I am not saying you are, but it goes to the point about another negative consequence for Schoen and Daboll by benching Daniel Jones

[EDjohnst1981]

To clarify, I am not saying you are, but it goes to the point about another negative consequence for Schoen and Daboll by benching Daniel Jones

Thanks. I'm not having a go either but I'm not sure that's the case.

Daboll's seat was warm over the offseason in light of the Wink Debacle and he's actions on the sideline.

To me it seems a continuation of that.

Whilst I am 💯 behind the regime, I absolutely understand that's not the case for all fans and perhaps I'm in the minority.

[Trench]

Thanks. I'm not having a go either but I'm not sure that's the case.

Daboll's seat was warm over the offseason in light of the Wink Debacle and he's actions on the sideline.

To me it seems a continuation of that.

Whilst I am 💯 behind the regime, I absolutely understand that's not the case for all fans and perhaps I'm in the minority.

I agree. I think the way Daboll handles Wink (and to a degree Kafka) means more to this organization hierarchy than most of us realize.

[MightyGiants]

Thanks. I'm not having a go either but I'm not sure that's the case.

Daboll's seat was warm over the offseason in light of the Wink Debacle and he's actions on the sideline.

To me it seems a continuation of that.

Whilst I am 💯 behind the regime, I absolutely understand that's not the case for all fans and perhaps I'm in the minority.

We have witnessed Mara being influenced by fans and pundits.  That's why I believe what is being discussed could matter to Schoen and Daboll